Welding in reinforcements on stock rear control arms?

[D_Eclipse9916]

Okay, so the BMW M3 has some pitiful ass rear control arms that bend if you look at them wrong, and I didnt want to take the points for putting on aftermarket ones.

 

Would welding on these reinforcers be considered a safety item or "seam welding" of the chassis? It is in no way changing adjustability, its just not allowing them to break or split as apparently BMW made them to do.

 

These are what im talking about.

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=TSU9975002

 

Just wondering if anyone knows for sure, otherwise ill throw out an email to Greg Greenbaum.

[kbrew8991]

that's not part of the chassis... so... POINTS! Find a place to save a couple points somewhere else.

 

Every frog has its warts

[D_Eclipse9916]

that's not part of the chassis... so... POINTS! Find a place to save a couple points somewhere else.

 

Every frog has its warts

 

 

Honestly id just keep replacing the arm if thats the case. Its not worth 4 points when the car doesnt nearly have that to give up.

[TurboShortBus]

Bolding/underlining mine:

E. SUSPENSION:

9) Replace or modify control arms (other than plates, shims, slots, or eccentric bolts/bushings for simple camber/caster adjustment only) or RWD/AWD rear trailing arms (may have spherical/metallic joint for the connection to the spindle/knuckle) +4

 

Okay, so the BMW M3 has some pitiful ass rear control arms that bend if you look at them wrong, and I didnt want to take the points for putting on aftermarket ones.

 

Would welding on these reinforcers be considered a safety item or "seam welding" of the chassis? It is in no way changing adjustability, its just not allowing them to break or split as apparently BMW made them to do.

Are rear control arms on The Ultimate Driving Machine really prone to breaking and littering the track with suspension pieces? If so, then the car should probably be parked, not modified.

 

If I believed everything the Steeda catalog said and I purchased accordingly, the suspension points alone would put my Mustang in TTR...

 

Mark

[Luke P.]

Bolding/underlining mine:

E. SUSPENSION:

9) Replace or modify control arms (other than plates, shims, slots, or eccentric bolts/bushings for simple camber/caster adjustment only) or RWD/AWD rear trailing arms (may have spherical/metallic joint for the connection to the spindle/knuckle) +4

 

Okay, so the BMW M3 has some pitiful ass rear control arms that bend if you look at them wrong, and I didnt want to take the points for putting on aftermarket ones.

 

Would welding on these reinforcers be considered a safety item or "seam welding" of the chassis? It is in no way changing adjustability, its just not allowing them to break or split as apparently BMW made them to do.

Are rear control arms on The Ultimate Driving Machine really prone to breaking and littering the track with suspension pieces? If so, then the car should probably be parked, not modified.

 

If I believed everything the Steeda catalog said and I purchased accordingly, the suspension points alone would put my Mustang in TTR...

 

Mark

 

Mark,

 

Talk about a knock on wood comment but.....

 

My BMW is running the stock flimsy whimsy rear arms and has held up. The car has gone agricultural a few times between me and the previous owner. I am not curbing shy with it.

 

The arms generally bend when they fail, I think they are designed this way to sacrifice themselves in a collision. I have heard of them bending on BAD off's or when hitting things. However its not reccomended to have bad off's or hit things, so the arms usually do ok.

 

Still, I don't believe we should take points for such a reinforcement. It gives the car no benefit besides reliability. The stock manual fan on BMW's is also prone to exploding. Its common for us to remove it and rewire the electric aux fan. No power gains yet we take +1 for it.

 

Eclipsor00, maybe email Greg and see what he says.

[TurboShortBus]

Still, I don't believe we should take points for such a reinforcement. It gives the car no benefit besides reliability.

Unfortunately, while some modifications do not do much to improve Car A's performance, they would do wonders to improve Car B's performance. The points are based on the greatest performance gain, so if the modification isn't worth the points, then the driver has the option not to do the modification. If we started with "Modification X to Car A is 1 point, but the same Modification X to car B is 4 points," the rule book would be a foot thick. That's where this comes into play:

Every frog has its warts

I drive a 2004 Mustang GT (which is really just a 1978 Fairmont with different fenders), and it has plenty of shortcomings that I'd like to fix, but the points would add up quickly to the point where I would just be contingency fodder for Evos and Corvettes.

 

The stock manual fan on BMW's is also prone to exploding. Its common for us to remove it and rewire the electric aux fan. No power gains yet we take +1 for it.

You could also treat the stock manual fan as a consumable item and replace it with a new one every year, like I do with my OEM rear upper control arm bushings (which, in its easiest form, involves getting new OEM rear upper control arms). Or, do new fans disintegrate as well? I believe that scatter shields are a zero-point mod...

 

Mark

[Greg G.]

Still, I don't believe we should take points for such a reinforcement. It gives the car no benefit besides reliability.

Unfortunately, while some modifications do not do much to improve Car A's performance, they would do wonders to improve Car B's performance. The points are based on the greatest performance gain, so if the modification isn't worth the points, then the driver has the option not to do the modification. If we started with "Modification X to Car A is 1 point, but the same Modification X to car B is 4 points," the rule book would be a foot thick. That's where this comes into play:

Every frog has its warts

I drive a 2004 Mustang GT (which is really just a 1978 Fairmont with different fenders), and it has plenty of shortcomings that I'd like to fix, but the points would add up quickly to the point where I would just be contingency fodder for Evos and Corvettes.

 

The stock manual fan on BMW's is also prone to exploding. Its common for us to remove it and rewire the electric aux fan. No power gains yet we take +1 for it.

You could also treat the stock manual fan as a consumable item and replace it with a new one every year, like I do with my OEM rear upper control arm bushings (which, in its easiest form, involves getting new OEM rear upper control arms). Or, do new fans disintegrate as well? I believe that scatter shields are a zero-point mod...

 

Mark

Bingo.

[nasa ser]

every car has its inherent problems, our sentra have pathetic horrible brakes, the nx2000 which is same car in everyway except different body has larger brakes..(calipers and rotors)......in fact i use nx2000 brakes and take the two points because my sentra stock brakes would burn through pads rotors etc every single weekend.

 

yet, the nx2000 guys get those brakes for free no points...........who's fault it that, mine for running a sentra, so i suffer with the +2 for brake calipers and move on,

 

that's not part of the chassis... so... POINTS! Find a place to save a couple points somewhere else.

 

Every frog has its warts

 

 

Honestly id just keep replacing the arm if thats the case. Its not worth 4 points when the car doesnt nearly have that to give up.

[Luke P.]

edit: double post

Edited December 20, 2010 by Guest

[Luke P.]

Still, I don't believe we should take points for such a reinforcement. It gives the car no benefit besides reliability.

Unfortunately, while some modifications do not do much to improve Car A's performance, they would do wonders to improve Car B's performance. The points are based on the greatest performance gain, so if the modification isn't worth the points, then the driver has the option not to do the modification. If we started with "Modification X to Car A is 1 point, but the same Modification X to car B is 4 points," the rule book would be a foot thick. That's where this comes into play:

Every frog has its warts

I drive a 2004 Mustang GT (which is really just a 1978 Fairmont with different fenders), and it has plenty of shortcomings that I'd like to fix, but the points would add up quickly to the point where I would just be contingency fodder for Evos and Corvettes.

 

The stock manual fan on BMW's is also prone to exploding. Its common for us to remove it and rewire the electric aux fan. No power gains yet we take +1 for it.

You could also treat the stock manual fan as a consumable item and replace it with a new one every year, like I do with my OEM rear upper control arm bushings (which, in its easiest form, involves getting new OEM rear upper control arms). Or, do new fans disintegrate as well? I believe that scatter shields are a zero-point mod...

 

Mark

 

Yeah I understand the scope and figured as much. My previous verdict of not going offroading frequently with your BMW track car is probably the best solution.

 

I've had very bad luck with the fans. Its not my first 3-series and they always seem to come apart, new or not. One exploded when an engine mount failed, a replacement mount could have fixed the car but the fan ate radiator, hoses, ect. On my current car I opened the hood to find it lodged in the shroud one day, who knows how it got there. Maybe deformed under high rpm.... Its tight in that area, better not to risk it and take +1.

 

I guess what we can conclude is each car has its nuances. Even tho I may be getting burned for a point here or there, someone else is getting burned in a different spot.

[echtm3]

Okay, so the BMW M3 has some pitiful ass rear control arms that bend if you look at them wrong, and I didnt want to take the points for putting on aftermarket ones.

 

Would welding on these reinforcers be considered a safety item or "seam welding" of the chassis? It is in no way changing adjustability, its just not allowing them to break or split as apparently BMW made them to do.

 

These are what im talking about.

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=TSU9975002

 

Just wondering if anyone knows for sure, otherwise ill throw out an email to Greg Greenbaum.

 

Wow, there are so many other things on the M3 to worry about, I've run mine for 3 hard years in TT and only bent 1 control arm.

 

Weight is the M3's issue, nothing else from what I've seen.

 

J

[D_Eclipse9916]

^^^ lol this is a question "while" I was in there. Front suspension was completely overhauled, cooling system completely overhauled, now its the rear end thats getting overhauled. So I wanted to know if I could do it. I cant, so ill pull the stock ones out and see if their straight, if not order another set of OEM ones. Damn bushings/balljoints in the rear is going to cost me $650 alone The front end was relatively cheap...

[Varkwso]

[.....I would just be contingency fodder for Evos and Corvettes.

 

......

 

Mark

 

I think you should take one for the team...