Cobra4B Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 How do you best manage your TT session when it's directly after a session you're instructing? Do you have your student drop you off at grid and tell them you'll review the session once you get back in? Do you stay with your student back to the pits and discuss the session then/there and kill the TT session? What's considered the right thing to do? I know most regions are trying to have HPDE sessions after TT now so TTers can go run 2-3 laps and come in and get ready to instruct. Now that sessions in MA are 15 minutes (for TT) I can't see being able to review a session w/ a student and actually make that next session yourself. Thanks for any input... next weekend at VIR will be my first weekend instructing. -Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getfast Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Your students come first 100% of the time. If you miss track time as a result, so be it. We do our best with the schedule to minimize this as much as possible by putting TT sessions before instructed sessions not after 'em, but it can't be avoided all the time. Wish I had a better answer for ya Brian, but that's the reality of the situation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awdracer Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 One thing that I always did was to show my students where I was paddocked. That way if time was tight they could pick me up (and drop me off) there. That always saved me a lot of time walking back and forth to grid if I was short on time. Study the schedule carefully and your pinch points will become obvious and usually you can plan around them. Sometimes you just have to cut some of your sessions short (or skip them) to be where you have to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundguydave Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Getfast is 100% correct. Your student comes first, ALWAYS. The proper way of handling things will, of course, vary with the student, and what the student's needs are. With more advanced students, on the cusp of moving to HPDE-2, it may work to have them drop you off at grid and then talk about the session later, but that's not a guarantee. A few things that have worked in the past: 1) Paddock the instructors as a group, near grid, so that it's easier to get there in a timely fashion. 2) Ask the grid marshal to allow the instructors to pre-grid (false grid) early so that all they have to do is hop in and go 3) Roll out at the tail end of the TT line, BUT you have to be patient when it comes to making passes so that you don't screw up the hot laps of the slower classes 4) Ask a former student, or a fellow instructor who may be in HPDE3/4 OR one of the racers to grid your car for you. There are usually plenty of people willing to do this for you! In the end, what works will be situational, and probably vary from session to session. If you have to miss a session, so be it. Your primary responsibility is to the student. Yes, instructing does have it's drawbacks, but when you hear that giggle as the student nails a corner perfectly for the first time, it's all worth it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getfast Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 3) Roll out at the tail end of the TT line, BUT you have to be patient when it comes to making passes so that you don't screw up the hot laps of the slower classes This would be difficult in Cobra4B's home region. Since we do "roll on roll off" with a pace car, the next session technically starts a few seconds after the last car in the prior session takes the checker. A TT'ing instructor can still get out there and record some timed laps of course, but getting it done early in the TT session as usual is pretty much impossible if you're instructing in the session prior. Also if people aren't in their TT grid spot on time, they're held for as much as a lap or two depending on TT field size and how spread out they are - we don't want late arrivals screwing up hot laps for those who were on time. Again this is something we try to minimize as much as possible with the per-weekend schedules, but it can't always be avoided (for instance there are three scenarios like this for the upcoming VIR weekend, out of eight TT sessions - often it's less, but we combined a race group so there aren't as many 'buffers' available...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 What's considered the right thing to do? the last email I got from MA was instructors/TT'ers were going to have to pay going forward anyway. So just pay the full amount and enjoy the weekend. MA doesn't really have it set up to instruct and TT (and do both well), it's really set up for HPDE/instructors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundguydave Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 3) Roll out at the tail end of the TT line, BUT you have to be patient when it comes to making passes so that you don't screw up the hot laps of the slower classes This would be difficult in Cobra4B's home region. Since we do "roll on roll off" with a pace car, the next session technically starts a few seconds after the last car in the prior session takes the checker. A TT'ing instructor can still get out there and record some timed laps of course, but getting it done early in the TT session as usual is pretty much impossible if you're instructing in the session prior. Also if people aren't in their TT grid spot on time, they're held for as much as a lap or two depending on TT field size and how spread out they are - we don't want late arrivals screwing up hot laps for those who were on time. Again this is something we try to minimize as much as possible with the per-weekend schedules, but it can't always be avoided (for instance there are three scenarios like this for the upcoming VIR weekend, out of eight TT sessions - often it's less, but we combined a race group so there aren't as many 'buffers' available...) Oh, I agree completely. IF the timing works out, though, there's no reason that the instructor (in a TTS car, or whatever) can't roll out dead last in the line. The courteous thing to do would be to hold off making any passes until the straights, so that you don't butch the TTF cars' hot laps. In the end, though, if you can't make the grid call, you just deal. From up top, creative scheduling can help ameliorate a lot of issues, but you usually have a throw-away session or two anyway if you're instructing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getfast Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 IF the timing works out, though, there's no reason that the instructor (in a TTS car, or whatever) can't roll out dead last in the line. No reason other than because we don't allow such a thing in mid-atlantic, due to many complaints about that over the years? Also if people aren't in their TT grid spot on time, they're held for as much as a lap or two depending on TT field size and how spread out they are - we don't want late arrivals screwing up hot laps for those who were on time. Those of us TTE/TTF who get to grid on time have as much of a right to clean track early in the session as the fast guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcindric Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 The student is there for our help first and foremost. The way I look at it is that in time trials we have 4 sessions on the track, so if we are late with a student we sit out or go on after a few laps. Time trials are usually best when you run 2-3 laps anyway. In GL and MW other instructors always work with each other to cover if you need to run, as long as you introduce the student and replacement instructor. Many times MO and Putnam have 40 cars in time trials so missing a couple of laps will not hurt , hey, we are here playing!!!!!!!!!!! Jon M Cindric 2010 GL TTB Champion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsbumed Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Dave summed up a lot of what I was going to say. We have been fortunate in the MW/GL regions in that Geff and I work closely with both the competition director and the chief instructor closely on scheduling. We are also lucky in that the majority of our TT drivers understand the time constraints of the instructors. Due to this we have been able to allow the instructors to do things like pre-grid and exit at the back of the pack without holding them. It is also made clear to all instructors that if they go out and don't work well with the slower classes and mess up other competitors laps that this privilige will go away. Best advice I can give is always remember that your student comes first no matter what... I can remember plenty of times when I have chosen to skip up to half my track time for this. Also always feel free to talk to your chief instructor and TT director to see if anything can be done to help. Keep in mind that many of us either have been or still are instructors as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 Thanks for the replies... I full well understand that the student(s) is/are the top priority, just wanted to get it out there and see what methods people used to deal with the situation. As John said there are a few instances this coming weekend at VIR where this will be an issue and I was reviewing the schedule. I've been doing this stuff for nearly 10 years now, and like all of us, started out as a noob in need of some good instruction. Good instructors can make or break the weekend so I have no intentions of having a student feel short-changed or neglected in any way. @ Mark - Yes TTing instructors pay a fee, but it's only $50. @ Jon - Can you clarify on the issue of a faster car being late to grid? If I show up with enough time to run 2-3 laps will I be let out? If my father's up for the weekend can he bring my car to grid for me? How's that work? If you'd like to address it at the track that's fine by me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getfast Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 @ Jon - Can you clarify on the issue of a faster car being late to grid? If I show up with enough time to run 2-3 laps will I be let out? If my father's up for the weekend can he bring my car to grid for me? How's that work? If you'd like to address it at the track that's fine by me. Yes, you will be let out whenever you arrive, just not during that first crucial lap or two. It's explained in the usual email to registered TT'ers which will be going out shortly. He could bring the car to grid if he could get past the wristband checkers. But it would make no sense for him to grid your car in the correct spot during the few times you won't be there to drive it at the start of the session. So I'd say during those conflict timeframes just meet him where-ever it's most convenient, or have your students bring you back to your base camp... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 IMO you're better off just missing a session or two if the schedule is conflicting...IE student sessions in front of TT sessions. No reason to rush a cold car onto a hot track for a lap or two. Thats just asking for a DQ. Jon says 3 out of the 8 sessions may have conflicts...that really isn't a big deal. Your best bet is to have a good warmup and first session to setup a good grid spot, and lay down your good times accordingly. I learned that last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 The most important thing to schedule is a car that doesn't break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 IMO you're better off just missing a session or two if the schedule is conflicting...IE student sessions in front of TT sessions. No reason to rush a cold car onto a hot track for a lap or two. Thats just asking for a DQ. Jon says 3 out of the 8 sessions may have conflicts...that really isn't a big deal. Your best bet is to have a good warmup and first session to setup a good grid spot, and lay down your good times accordingly. I learned that last year. Thank for the input Vinny.... good advice. The most important thing to schedule is a car that doesn't break. Very true... so far the silver car has behaved very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperkins Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Seems like MA is trying everything to get TT'ers to stop instructing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getfast Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I think of it as just the opposite... we are trying our best to make it so instructors can TT if they want to. Please tell me what we're doing wrong and I'll try to explain why it's that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Seems like MA is trying everything to get TT'ers to stop instructing. It used to be ALOT worse circa 2005/6/7 as in even if they did let you register as a TTing instructor all the sessions were back-to-back and sometimes even surrounded with your two student sessions. Give 'em a little credit for a.) trying and b.) having some improvement. They're a bit more packed schedule with 3 race groups, 4 full DE groups, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 1. Students always come first. They are reasonable. 2. The way TT is scheduled and managed can help. 3. Sometimes it happens there is a conflict - see 1 above. 4. Some regions have fewer issues then others. The schedule is always a compromise of racers, instructors and TTers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbow Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Yep, student comes first, example from this past weekend: With the new motor I can only get 3 - 4 20 min sessions on 10 gal. I only brought 10 gal and I didn't want to go out and get more. Student needed to see a nice smooth line on the track. His Class schedule prevented it being done on Sat, so I took him in a DE4 session and only ran 3 TT sessions on Sun. Later the Chief of instructors came by and asked if my student was staying for the last sessions - Yes. Then they asked if I was staying - Yes, isn't that my job? Its was around 10:30 PM when I finally got home, all wore out. But my student had a great weekend, lots of teachable moments, but nothing got broke and he can drive off track without hitting anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Having any crew support is a huge help. If it wasn't for the mutual support of the Mafia most of us would never make grid on time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Having any crew support is a huge help. If it wasn't for the mutual support of the Mafia most of us would never make grid on time. Amen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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