bmacf Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Sorry if the answer to this question is obvious to most, but I'm in the planning stage and want to make sure I have the proper interpretation. I'm thinking of time trialing my '05 Lotus Elise. Lotus offers a "Track Pack" option with the car, which includes single adjustable coil overs with a remote resevoir. Also part of the package is a front sway bar with three settings, and a brace for the rear suspension (adds stiffness/integrity, not for adjustability). To me this meets the definition of "OEM suspension" in my mind - it was a package offered with the car. But am I interpreting the classification rules correctly? And I'd love to hear from anybody who participating in TT with their Elise. I plan to keep my car streetable it would be helpful to hear how people have prepped their Elise for TTC. Thanks, Bill in MD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken o Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 I think for NASA OEM = what the base package of the same car had on it. The Track Pack is an enhancement package. You would need to take points for everything changed by adding the package that is not included as part of the base model Elise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbow Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 OEM BASE car came with X shocks, sway bars, springs, body work. Any Options from the factory will cost points. Example, my 1992 Corvette Base model had one type of Bilstien shocks, certian size sway bars, and certian springs. It also came with small brakes. My car came with the Z07 suspension package. Has heavier springs, larger sway bars and different shocks. It includes larger brakes. Using the update/backdate rule the brakes are 0 because in a later year in the range of my BASE car they became the brakes on the base car and the smaller brakes were no longer offered. I have to take points for shocks, sways, and springs. You will need to take points for all OPTIONS that were not on the BASE car. Its the way it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmacf Posted February 25, 2011 Author Share Posted February 25, 2011 Very helpful. Thank you. ...dang. Bill in MD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlfpkrcn1 Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Sounds like +7 for shock possibly 10 depending on design +2 sway bar +3 chassis stiffening +2 spring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmchopeful Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Defintely points for shocks. I emailed Greg G. this same question since the deCarbons originaly on my car are no longer available. Even if I get auto parts stores shocks +3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 To me this meets the definition of "OEM suspension" in my mind - it was a package offered with the car. But am I interpreting the classification rules correctly? Your interpretation is incorrect. Please note the following, which was copied and pasted directly from the 2011 TT classification forms, page 2 (note the portion that I underlined): For purposes of NASA TT points assessments, the term OEM will be defined as follows: Any part that is identical in size,shape, and functional characteristics compared to the part that originally came on the vehicle, from the manufacturer, as a standard feature of the base model as it is listed in section 6.3 Base Classifications (factory options and specialty model parts are considered non-OEM) or is listed as a standard replacement part by the OEM manufacturer. Some parts that are produced by aftermarket manufacturers as generic replacement parts may not require a points assessment provided that: they are the same size and shape, and have the same functional characteristics as the OEM part, and that they provide no significant improvement in performance, longevity, or reliability. If you have any questions about the modification points, consult your TT Director. Errors and omissions could result in disqualification and other penalties. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZELISE Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 First of all the Lotus rear chasis brace is covered in the Appendix of the TT rules. To stay in TTC and keep your car streetable you have a few choices: Swap out the front shocks/springs for LSS shocks/springs or Non piggyback adjustable shocks ** +14 Shocks +3 Springs +2 Swaybar +2 225 Tires -7 120-200 TW tires +2 With 3 points to spare Do the above front shock swap and swap out the swaybar for a base model swaybar ** +14 Shocks +3 Springs +2 225 Tires -7 50-130 TW tires +7 (A048, NT-01, RA-1, R888) Exactly 19 points Plus many other variations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmacf Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 Thank you for all the feedback. And the examples were particularly helpful to help me understand that although the Track Pack bumps me up to TTB, I still have some options to stay within TTC. I think I've run into a road-block though with the weight to "adjusted" weight/horsepower ratio. My Elise puts out 190HP, and even considering that I'll be using a stock tire width under 245, at the TTC ratio of 12:1, I'd have to weigh-in at 2470lbs! With me in the car it would be 2150 lbs - I'd have to bolt-on 300 more lbs to compete? Must be that nobody is driving the Elise in TTC, or I've got a gross miscalculation of the adjusted weight to horsepower ratio. Any thoughts on that would be appreciated. Thanks, Bill in MD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbuskuhl Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 My Elise puts out 190HP, - I'd have to bolt-on 300 more lbs to compete? The “Adjusted” Weight/Power ratio is calculated using the actual chassis dynamometer maximum horsepower of the vehicle Is the 190hp a published number at the crank? Need to get your car on a dyno (see 6.5 on dyno information), it probably makes 18% or so less than that. You need to find out actual rwhp. You can't bolt on 300lbs of ballast, max is 250lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZELISE Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 I did a bunch of research on stock dynojet numbers on the elise. The highest I saw was 162rwhp. Mine was 161rwhp after a mandatory dyno check at a NASA event. If you run a full tank of gas and don't remove anything you will probably be close. IMHO the elise can be competitive localy in TTC. Nationaly it would take a totally different setup (non streetable) and a reflash on the ECU to lower the cam switchover point to be competitive. Be sure to leave your battery cover installed or brace the battery in the rearward direction since the bracket uses friction to keep it from sliding back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmacf Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 Oh that makes so much more sense. Thank you. And I just calculated 82% of 190 (155. which puts me at a 2015 lb min wt. Much better, but I better make sure I only have 155.8 HP at the wheels. I have some Traqmate recordings at Summit Point SPR at full throttle. That should give me an idea. Bill in MD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 TM hp numbers are not reliable to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 FWIW, I was told that, at Nationals in September 2010, the TMs were being used along with the dyno, and the HP difference was something in the area of 5 or less (maybe even as low as 2). Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 TM hp numbers are not reliable to say the least. Get the latest software - it is better then you may think. I saw a bunch at Road Atlanta last weekend that were scary accurate to sealed motor racecars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 TM hp numbers are not reliable to say the least. Get the latest software - it is better then you may think. I saw a bunch at Road Atlanta last weekend that were scary accurate to sealed motor racecars. me and jason have modified throttles, we can push them to 130% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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