I should know this by now but...

[Cobra4B]

Can someone verify I have the HP/weight legality stuff correct in my head?

 

For TTF-TTA with a non-dyno reclassed car, if a car is challenged the HP/Weight is based on the actual weight post session and an acutal dyno reading taken at that time. It has nothing to do with the minimum competition weight on the form, correct?

 

However, if you come in under the min comp weight listed on your form, you are illegal and DQ'd even if your power level is such that you're still power/weight legal?

 

If you're running TTS-TTR you cannot dyno more than the power level listed on your form even if youer power/weight is still legal?

 

Thanks,

 

Brian

[Greg G.]

Brian,

 

Always go to the rules for issues that could be confused or forgotten.

 

Top of page 8 in TT Rules:

The “Adjusted” Weight/Power ratio is calculated using the actual chassis dynamometer

maximum horsepower of the vehicle, the actual, measured post-session minimum competition

weight with driver (not the Minimum Competition Weight listed on the TT Car Classification

Form used for assessing points), and other factors such as body type, transmission type, and tire

type and size. The method used to calculate the “Adjusted” Weight/Power ratio is fully

described in Appendix C (as well as in the Performance Touring Rules). These minimum

“Adjusted” Weight/Power ratios are not a substitute for base classing followed by

calculation of modification points to determine the final competition class. They are an

additional limitation placed on vehicles to help achieve a level platform for competition in each

class.

 

Page 42 and 43:

However, the minimum penalty for a driver found to be competing in a class that is too low (for

whatever reason) will be disqualification of all lap times up to that point for the event (weekend).

Since 7.4 does not allow a competitor to switch classes until a different day, the competitor may

continue to drive in the remaining sessions for practice, but all times will be disqualified. It will

be at the TT Director’s discretion whether to award last place points in the class that the car

should have been competing in. If the infraction is found on the first day of a competition

weekend, the TT Director may allow (at his discretion) the driver to compete on the second day

in the correct class (whether by up-classing, or de-modification of the vehicle). As well, if there

have been no changes to the Car Classification Form that show evidence that a change was made

to the vehicle that led to it becoming non-compliant at a certain point in time, or other evidence

that the vehicle was compliant in previous events, or if the driver admits that, in retrospect, the

car was not compliant at previous events, the TT Director may revoke all previous points in that

class, with or without assigning last place points for the driver in the higher class for those

events. Note that based on the above rules, a driver whose car is found to be underweight and

illegal for its declared class, is disqualified for that entire day, and will get zero points in the

declared class for that day.

 

Any Procedural Violation of the rules that is found after a competition session will result in

disqualification of the timed session prior to the discovery of the Procedural Violation. The

following are all Procedural Violations: failing to revise or resubmit a Car Classification Form

after new modifications have been made, incorrectly assessing modification points, failing to

note all modifications that require points assessment, failing a Dyno test by any amount,

providing any incorrect information on the Car Classification Form, and failing to meet the

minimum competition weight listed on the Car Classification Form.

 

Page 34:

At any event where dynamometer testing (or GPS compliance testing once it is approved) is not

available, Time Trial Officials will use the maximum chassis Dyno horsepower level from the

certified Dyno report submitted with the TT Car Classification Form along with the actual

vehicle weight after competition to calculate the “Adjusted” Weight/Power ratio for that vehicle.

Alternatively, at their discretion, Time Trial Officials may have the vehicle sealed and

transported for off-site Dyno testing at a later date. At events where Dyno testing (or GPS

compliance testing once it is approved) is available, Time Trial Officials at their option will use

either: a) the maximum chassis Dyno horsepower level from the certified Dyno report submitted

with the TT Car Classification Form along with the actual vehicle weight after competition to

calculate the “Adjusted” Weight/Power ratio for that vehicle; or b) the results of Dyno testing

either requested by Time Trial Officials or performed due to a protest at the track to calculate the

“Adjusted” Weight/Power ratio.

 

TTA-TTF non-Dyno re-classed--yep, straight from the rules--use the actual numbers for Adjusted Wt/Hp ratio.

If the weight is under the Minimium Comp. Weight listed, then it is a Procedural Violation to begin with. If the number of points assessed due to the lower weight put the car into the next class up, then it is a full D/Q.

 

In the case of TTS, we could use the results of the Dyno test performed at the track, even if it was higher than the number listed on the Form, but it would likely be considered a Procedural Violation.

[Vettedoctor]

Let's try an example.

 

08 BMW M6

 

Here is the listing from the Base Class table

BMW M6 ('06-'08) TTA 3909

 

Let's say you came in after a session and your car weighed 3905 lbs and dynoed at 490 rwhp.

 

The car would be legal since:

 

If the base weight used for base classing purposes (above in 6.3.2) minus minimum competition

weight (with driver*) is greater than: 5 lbs +1,

 

So you are give 5lbs for free, just 5 not 6

 

And you would get +.75 for weighing over 3900 lbs.

[boomn29]

The car would be legal since:

 

If the base weight used for base classing purposes (above in 6.3.2) minus minimum competition

weight (with driver*) is greater than: 5 lbs +1,

 

So you are give 5lbs for free, just 5 not 6

That is the rule right? We are all essentially given 5lbs under our min competition weight for free? Can someone verify this thinking?

 

Along those lines, if you take 1 pt for weight - which is 5lbs (and 2pts are 20lbs), how much under your min competition weight can you be legally?

[kbrew8991]

read how the rule is written exactly / literally

 

I believe it says something to the effect of "more than 5lbs under". 5lbs exactly isn't more than 5lbs under. 6lbs is.

[Vettedoctor]

This is how the rule is written - this is cut and pasted from the TT rules

 

If the base weight used for base classing purposes (above in 6.3.2) minus minimum competition

weight (with driver*) is greater than: 5 lbs +1, 20 lbs +2, 35 lbs +3,

 

So like Ken said above, 5.0 lbs isn't greater than 5.0 lbs. But 5.6 lbs would be consitered 6.0 based on the following.

-Cut and pasted from appendix C of the 2011 TT rules.

 

Note: All vehicle weights will be measured to the tenth of a pound (xxxx.x), then

rounded off to the nearest pound for all calculations. Any weight ending in

“.5” (xxxx.5x) will be rounded up or down to the benefit of the competitor.

 

So if you took +2 points for weight reduction you could actually remove 34.5 lbs if you took +1 point you coulr remove 19.5lb etc. The .5 is if you want to cut it close.

 

But I wouldn't suggest you get too close to your minimums I know your TT director and he's a real ball buster.

 

To be safe I would run with an extra 75 - 80 lbs in the car at all times