ddg Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Fellas..... I will most likley pick up (for next to nothing) a partialy built '84 Audi 4000quattro race car in the near future: Completely stripped, new full cage, car actualy runs, was an aborted Lemons project. Dry weight is about 2,500lbs. or less. I'd like to transplant a 2.2L 5cyl. 5000 turbo engine into it, stand alone EFI, minor engine mods, I'm looking for 250hp at the crank (very common swap and reasonable HP. level on a stock engine) I currently run a front wheel drive Audi coupe in HPDE with a TON of suspension and engine mods. My question is, is there a handicap for running 4wd? What class would I run? This 4wd platform can handle massive amounts of power, some guys are running 20v turbo swaps that dyno in the mid 400's on 91oct!!! Am I limited on the suspension mods? (I have some serious geometry mods on the coupe that work really well and would be a direct bolt on to the 4000). I also have a brand new 2.6L N/A 5cyl in the coupe right now that I could transplant into the 4000, the turbo engine would make way more power though.... My '84 coupe I run in HPDE (it's still driven on the street) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgibson79 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/gts_rules.pdf Rules for GTS are here. We did away with penalty for AWD I think 2 years ago. We race a 99 A4 quatro in the great lakes region and used to be in GTS3 and are now in GTS2. The car will be classed based on HP/Weight and nothing else. Read the CCR & Class rules to makes sure you cover all your bases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSCoupe Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Hey Dan, welcome! As Kevin said, there is no penalty for AWD. GTS is basically a wide open class with HP/Wt classing (there is a minor adjustment for non-DOT tires). FYI, the rules review/discussion period is just starting (for the 2012 rules), so stay tuned for any potential changes. I'm looking forward to seeing your project thread on Motorgeek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddg Posted October 28, 2011 Author Share Posted October 28, 2011 Thanks everbody for the quick replies! Even though some of the basics are covered, I've got a HUGE project ahead of me........ I have to decide wether or not I should canibalize the coupe or not, how much $$ I can or want to put into it! Hey Dan, welcome! As Kevin said, there is no penalty for AWD. GTS is basically a wide open class with HP/Wt classing (there is a minor adjustment for non-DOT tires). FYI, the rules review/discussion period is just starting (for the 2012 rules), so stay tuned for any potential changes. I'm looking forward to seeing your project thread on Motorgeek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grifkylian Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Even though some of the basics are covered, I've got a HUGE project ahead of me........ I have to decide wether or not I should canibalize the coupe or not, how much $$ I can or want to put into it! The money part will most likely come in the handling department. I see you said you have upgraded suspension parts but are they off-the-shelf parts or custom units? Also You'll def need solid bushings, etc if you haven't already done that. Power-wise, you'll def need the extra oomph and torque of a turbo (good idea on the 2.2L motor... it will definitely will be more budget-friendly to make power rather than N/A) to get the car up and out of corners with the likes of E36 M3's and Porsche 944's (if you run in GTS2 that is; GTS3 is a way tougher class to be competitive in than GTS2). Drivetrain-wise, if I were you I'd worry about the differentials (assuming they are the stock/OEM units). You might need to look into getting upgraded LSD units so that you have the AWD all the time and avoid spinning inside tires and snapping axles (I've seen it happen on time attack cars). If you run the car for GTS2, at 2700 lbs. with you in it and gas, you'd need to make approx 180-183hp at the wheels which might be a bit difficult to do even with the AWD sapping some extra power out (judging from the 250hp crank goal). Good luck! Keep us updated on the build and what you plan on doing racing-wise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddg Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 Even though some of the basics are covered, I've got a HUGE project ahead of me........ I have to decide wether or not I should canibalize the coupe or not, how much $$ I can or want to put into it! The money part will most likely come in the handling department. I see you said you have upgraded suspension parts but are they off-the-shelf parts or custom units? Also You'll def need solid bushings, etc if you haven't already done that. Power-wise, you'll def need the extra oomph and torque of a turbo (good idea on the 2.2L motor... it will definitely will be more budget-friendly to make power rather than N/A) to get the car up and out of corners with the likes of E36 M3's and Porsche 944's (if you run in GTS2 that is; GTS3 is a way tougher class to be competitive in than GTS2). Drivetrain-wise, if I were you I'd worry about the differentials (assuming they are the stock/OEM units). You might need to look into getting upgraded LSD units so that you have the AWD all the time and avoid spinning inside tires and snapping axles (I've seen it happen on time attack cars). If you run the car for GTS2, at 2700 lbs. with you in it and gas, you'd need to make approx 180-183hp at the wheels which might be a bit difficult to do even with the AWD sapping some extra power out (judging from the 250hp crank goal). Good luck! Keep us updated on the build and what you plan on doing racing-wise I've spent the last 5 years developing the suspension on my coupe, there's very litle aftermarket parts, I usualy have to graft on speed parts from VW's. I've raised the roll center quite a bit by grafting in modified/cut down 2 piece struts from an Audi 90, (shorter Koni race struts w/600lb springs), they have VW ball joint "extenders", machined knuckles to get -3.0° of camber without tilting in the struts, adj. billet strut mounts for caster (orginal design had 0°, now have +3.5°), more clearance for wider wheels (can run 15x8's with out rubbing), Wilwood big brakes, aluminum and urethane a-arm and subframe mounts (Mustang urethane trans mounts for the engine), adj. swaybar end links (froma Miata) to get rid of any preload..... the list goes on.... I can bolt in all of this in the 4000, the front ends are identical, in fact from the "A" pillar forward, the whole front end is identical, the Germans love to share common parts!! My coupe weighs 2,325lbs. on NASA's scales, I'm hoping to get the 4000 well under 2,500. 4000's have lockable rear and center diffs, I don't think wheel spin will be to much of a problem unless I run a TON power through the wheels. Several guys have run a huge amount of power through this drivetrain, alot of them will drag race these cars, that's when you see broken axles and CV's. I should be ok untill I get above the 350hp level. The big drawback with this platform is the big, heavy ass 5cyl engine that hangs compltely out in front of the axle centerline, the 4000q is not so bad; it's got some weight in the back with the diff, subframe and suspension, the coupe has got nothing in back, stock it has a 65%/35% front rear weight distribution!! That's one of the main reasons why I won't turn the coupe into a race car, I just don't think it'll be competetive, especialy with those damn M3's that have perfect hadling, perfect platforms, perfect everything!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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