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LJ32

Thunder Roadster Modifier for 2015?

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LJ32

Thunder Roadster Modifier for 2015?

 

Im gonna throw this out there but is anyone in ST3 that has a GT type car that makes twice the drag, able to keep up with the open wheel thunder roadsters in ST3. because from this time sheet not even ST1 cars are competitive.

see link for time slip --->

(work blocked my photobucket)

 

 

ill race em tho! just saying...

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kbrew8991

Let me see if I understand. You're using the results of a single non-national-championship race to try and get the rules changed?

 

Hallett is a fairly unique track that's going to favor a lightweight lower whp ST (and TT1/2/3 by association) build so that's going to skew the results slightly. At least look at the times from all races and from TT as well.

 

That 1:21.652 is baarrely under the TT3 record of 1:21.751 set during the same event by Terry Fair's 4th-at-Nationals TT3 heavyweight (38XX lb min comp weight) Mustang. And considering Fariouz (sp) and Terry have been gearing up all year to try and be competitive at Nationals it's not surpsing to see those two efforts turn fairly similar times with the edge going towards the car that should fit the track characteristics a little better. And TT2 went quicker by around 1 full second and TT1 was in the mid 1:18s. No offense to the ST crowd at the same event, but it sounds like they're maybe not quite pushing the limits of the ruleset as hard so Farouz (sp) looks like a potential overdog if you narrow your focus too much but if you widen it seems like it slots into the rulesets perfectly to me and that's just based on one event at one track that should favor his lightweight low power build over what you typically see in ST3/TT3 on up.

 

And I don't think a single regional event at Hallett should shape the ruleset. Nationals results, plus events from all over the US, with some grains-of-salts applied as needed should yeild a ruleset that works more fairly at all tracks all conditions and for all cars. And that's what we've got I think. If you start narrowing down to one track or one race you're not getting the big picture at all. The big picture should be driving adjustments (if any are needed), the small picture is affected by far too many variables outside of the ruleset's control.

 

Pick your frog, live with the warts applies to ST as well. If they're that great go get one I hear they're cheap Or find a bit more speed in your own setup, and your own driving if needed too. No offense intended.

Edited by Guest

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LJ32

Absolutely,

This was just a regional event, I was wondering if anyone else in other regions had ran up on one, being that it did go under the record, I was curious. I have 65whp left before im at my ratio lol so I wasn’t using myself as an example… just saw this thing dusting st1 cars and thought to myself if the profiles and build of an open wheel car to a GT car are that beneficial… it very well might be or not. I suppose we will see if there are any at NATs…

Edited by Guest

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kbrew8991

65whp and a similar level of attention to aero & suspension tweaks may net you alot more time than you think. Also last few aero articles I read seemed to indicate a GT or prototype car is going to be *more* slippery than an open wheel car - those tires hanging out in the air create a good bit of drag and turbulance. But I'm no Adiran Newey yadda yadda.

 

Farouz is going to Nationals, afaik. Headed into the Lion's Den that is the Southeast Corvette Mafia that's so good at driving and car prep they got TTA/PTA taken away.... and got ST3/TT3 with less mods restrictions in it's place. Whee.

 

I'd be alot closer to with you if he'd been beating up on both ST1 and TT1 times and had been doing it all season at a variety of tracks. It'd at least raise an eyebrow and should trigger a closer look to see how relatively strong the competition is in all those classes and if that's equal or close enough then maybe it's time to look at an adjustment. But that's not the case.... at all.

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LJ32

yeah, I could find another 100 lbs to take out of my S2000 but its already under 2400lbs (2550 competition weight) im starting to find that going to one extreme power to weight wise is not a good idea for an s2000. Sure, the car is competitive at 2200 lbs on a tight track but its unbelievably embarrassing watching cars in the same class pull bus lengths on the straights. which puts emphasis on my question. Are thunder roadsters bullets down the straights as well as having benefit from being light compared to a GT Chassis?

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LJ32

^^^^^

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LJ32

Got ya,

hear me out, i pushed the str st merge so im all for different kinds of builds but at what point do you draw the line. im interested in seeing what he can do with it at nationals and through out the rest of the season.

 

I remember Greg saying something along the lines of "as soon as i rid STR, people are going to say something about it when someone builds a proper tube frame car." lol as always, he was right...

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TowDawg

I don't run the Busa engine in mine, but I know the TR you're talking about has a good bit aero, so he's definitely creating more than I am. TR's absolutely suck wind on the long straights! He's eating you alive in the corners with lighter weight and his downforce.

 

Places like Road Atlanta are really tough on us because pretty much all of the Honda Challenge cars can drive by us on the back straight and then we have to get back by them in the corners.

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kbrew8991

Ok I'll entertain this a little (even though I think ultimately there should be no change, and no way in hell there should be a change based on one field at one event).

 

A TR already takes in all likelyhood:

a hit for being a non-prod car -0.4 (in ST3, not quite as bad if ST12) which is one of the bigger hits on the list

a hit for being very light at -0.3

a hit for sequential trans at -0.2

and a hit for non-DOT tires for those cheapo asphalt oval tires they like to use at -0.7 even though I bet an A7/R7/A6/R6 is probably stickier and won't get dinged for it.

 

gets help for being small displacement for +0.3

gets help for having narrow tires at +0.7

 

total hits at -1.4

total credits at +1.0

 

nets out to -0.4 hit. Whereas a typical ST car I've been around nets out to about that much of a credit, right? Which will further drive the spread in raw hp/weights that they compete at with the conventional car having a good bit higher raw weight/hp ratio.

 

And that's not enough? How much more should it be in your opinion? Just asking. I don't own one, no dog in the fight yadda yadda.

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TowDawg

Since race in the spec class, I have no idea about what points they get / get deducted, but if they get penalized more for the Hoosier spec tires than they would for R7/A7, that's insane. The Hoosier spec tires aren't worth a damn and you'd pick up some serious time running R's/A's, with less of a hit in points on top of it.

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rmj951

Did you just look at this one race? The front running ST1 cars were in the 1.18 & 1.19's this weekend.

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LJ32

no that was just that one timesheet I posted but you can check and see all the Texas regional event time sheets...

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Firouz H.

guys,

 

yes, my thunder roadster is a perfect fit for a small track however you have to take into account I have been racing 125 shifters and 250 superkarts for the passed 35 years and I have over 300 laps in hallett. the thunder roadster is the closest thing to 250 superkart. both have sold rear axle and I drive it like a 250 superkart. I do work on the my car all the time to improve the handling. the hp is good to have however car that handles best rules. my car handles good enough that I almost can run one set of tires ($450 per set) for complete full race season.

 

I hope the above info clears few question. looking forward to the Atlanta nationals and hope to give all the corvettes run for their money. the back long straights is going to be challenging vs high hp cars.

 

regards to all

firouz

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LJ32

WELL!!! this thread can be locked! hahahaha that was a good race... between the c5's lol

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LJ32

WELL!!! this thread can be locked! hahahaha that was a good race... between the c5's lol

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TowDawg

Yep! Mike ran a great race, but was no match for the Vette's at Road Atlanta.

Like Firouz said, the track can make all the difference in the world. If Nationals had been at a track like Barber or AMP, the Vette's would have been at a disadvantage. At Road Atlanta, they definitely had the advantage.

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umades

Yes, the Vetts had their way with the roadsters at Road Atlanta and talking about how it would go at other tracks shouldn't take anything away from David and Kevin. They had well sorted out cars and drove very well in the Championship race and the qualifiers. That being said, the roadsters are new to the class and the sorting out has just begun. I was in the front of the pack of roadsters and I can promise you that I have more to find in my car and my driving. I know that the other roadsters on the track are experienced racers and will continue to improve. Just seems like fun to me to see what can be done to make it a competitive race with the Vetts. Kevin, don't throw away your mirrors just yet. I just might show up there!

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brkntrxn
Yes, the Vetts had their way with the roadsters at Road Atlanta and talking about how it would go at other tracks shouldn't take anything away from David and Kevin. They had well sorted out cars and drove very well in the Championship race and the qualifiers. That being said, the roadsters are new to the class and the sorting out has just begun. I was in the front of the pack of roadsters and I can promise you that I have more to find in my car and my driving. I know that the other roadsters on the track are experienced racers and will continue to improve. Just seems like fun to me to see what can be done to make it a competitive race with the Vetts. Kevin, don't throw away your mirrors just yet. I just might show up there!

 

 

I know EXACTLY what I would do to an ST3 Thunder Roadster if I had one.

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umades

I'm interested to hear what you have to say. I know you get lonely running by yourself up front. Come on Kevin, give me a little help here. Us old guys need all the help we can get.

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brkntrxn
I'm interested to hear what you have to say. I know you get lonely running by yourself up front. Come on Kevin, give me a little help here. Us old guys need all the help we can get.

 

 

Ha, there is no way I am going to say. The C5 Mafia has years of collective testing and development, secret squirrel stuff you know.

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Firouz H.

congrats to the top three finishers. RA was a great event however the vetts had a great advantage over the TR's on back straight. the vetts were the perfect fit for event like RA they had just enough hp to fit in the st3 class and lots of TQ to be used when needed. I do believe the TR's can run and beat the vetts in small tracks like barber or hallet. the hayabusa engine just does not have enough TQ for long straights or quick burst of acceleration out of turns. Could the TQ be increased in hayabusa ??? yes, it could however the idea for the TR class is to keep the engines stock so more people would come into TR class and they do not have to brake the bank to be competitive. I can see group of 15 or more TR running in ST3 as their own group in 2015 vir . This year alone over 15 TR'S/busa has been purchased in central and eastern region. the TR group is growing fast due to the low cost of the cars and engines and the fun factor(on eBay good used busa engine could be bought for 3k to 4k). the most important thing in the growth is to keep the engines stock with absolute no modifications to the engine.

the old saying says don't create more rules however the stock engine rule is a key to the additional success of thunder roadsters.

 

best wishes to all

 

firouz

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umades

The simple solution is for the Vetts to go up to ST2 ( they easily change the tune/tires ) leaving the puny little motorcycle engined cars to do battle in ST3.

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brkntrxn
The simple solution is for the Vetts to go up to ST2 ( they easily change the tune/tires ) leaving the puny little motorcycle engined cars to do battle in ST3.

 

 

Ha!

 

My videos from Barber shows the ST3 Thunder Roadsters highly competitive on the short tracks. CMP would be the same way.

 

I will have some decisions to make with VIR in 2015. One thing I like about the ST format is the diverse platforms of race cars and you see more of that in ST3 than ST2.

 

 

-Kevin

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umades

I think Firouz makes a strong point. It is not likely that any national event will be held on a more technical track. So, to compete with the big cube engines the Busas are faced with engine modifications. We know money buys speed but the attraction of the Roadsters is the comparatively low cost of consumables and the ability to repair ( as evidenced by me at the Eastern Nationals ). Tweaked engines are less reliable than the stock Busas that all the Roadsters ran at ENs.

 

Roadsters are growing in popularity in both the Thunder Roadster class in NASA-SE and in ST3 class. If enough growth occurs, there will be a roadster class created pulling the Roadsters out of ST3 or a rules change making Roadsters more competitive in ST3. Think about it, no Roadsters in ST3 at the Eastern Nationals and there is a 3 car field - the Roadsters field more cars than any other ST class.

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braknl8
The simple solution is for the Vetts to go up to ST2 ( they easily change the tune/tires ) leaving the puny little motorcycle engined cars to do battle in ST3.

 

 

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