STI Brake Pads?

[jbj]

Hey guys. Last week I signed my wife up for HPDE1 and she had an absolute blast. The problem is that the brakes got real mushy on the 2014 STI in the later sessions. I have pretty much decided that I need pads for track day, and pads for her normal daily driving.

 

A good friend recommended using RBF 600 brake fluid. So I'm gonna try that as well. But my real question for you Subbie guys, what pads are you running at the track? I've done a fair amount of searching on the STI forums, but frankly, I'm just not sure if those dudes race or just drive around town trying to look good. I come here knowing that everybody actually uses their cars and gets on the track. Also, I know that pads can be somewhat vehicle specific. What works on an Audi, might now work all that great on a STI.

 

I'm sure I'll have more questions in the future, but this one needs to be nipped in the bud. I'd appreciate any help you guys have.

 

Thanks.

Edited July 31, 2014 by Guest

[getfast]

Not a Subie guy but never had problems with Hawk pads on track, http://www.hawkperformance.com/

 

Possibly the HP Plus, HT-10, or one of the DTC compounds?

[clydesdale]

Just to clarify, mushy brakes aren't a pad problem. Mushy is a fluid problem which the RBF600 should help solve.

 

Pad fad due to brake operation outside the temp limits of the pad has two primary symptoms. First, when the brakes are too hot they'll feel solid but your stopping power will be limited. It's like jamming on the brakes but it doesn't feel like it's braking. The second is vibration or pulsing after overheating the brakes. This is the pad material breaking down and adhering to the rotor-- you'll be able to see streaks of dark material upon examination. Pad fad will usually reverse itself fairly quickly if you lay off the brakes for a lap or two once you start to notice reduced braking performance.

 

Brake ducts will help prevent pad fade, so will using pads with higher operating temperatures. I'd also recommend the Hawk HT-10 or maybe the HP+. With that said there is a downside-- a higher max temp usually implies a higher min temp too. DTC-60 have a minimum temp around 300F which means they're not appropriate for street use, they'll never be hot enough to work properly in the winter. The HT-10 is also 300F, the HP+ will be better at around 100F. The HP+ will probably still fade with really hard braking (or too much braking) but might be a good compromise if you plan to use them street/track year-round.

 

Here is temp data for Hawk pads:

 

[subaru927]

Are you running stock power, tires, and brakes? There are a ton of track-specific pad suggestions on NASIOC, but they can be misleading, since the WRX calipers and pads are notably smaller, so they tend to require more aggressive compounds than the STi to avoid melting onto your rotors. If she is just starting out, the pads that came on newer STi may be fine for a few more events after the fluid flush. I don't know how much more headroom the HP+ will give you, but they tend to be an acceptable beginner pad, too. Ferodo DS2500 is a nice step up until you really start to pick up speed or switch away from street tires (or suspension in my case), and those are plenty tame on the street, although a bit noisier. The most aggressive pad I'd recommend for newer people is Carbone-Lorraine RC5+, the pad I use for street and track, since it handles more heat than any other pad that can also work fine at street temps.

 

Edit: Looking at that Hawk chart makes DTC-30s look very tempting for dual-duty. Stay away! I had to warm them up for the street and they still couldn't handle track temps with brake ducts and street tires.

[jbj]

Thanks so much guys. I really appreciate the info. I was thinking brake pads that work better would reduce temps since the brake system wouldn't have to work as hard. But I could certainly be wrong. I believe the tires are the Dunlop SP600's. But everything is stock.

 

I had thought of swapping brake pads the night before the track day. But perhaps I'll just try the fluid upgrade and the HP+'s. We are new to this, so I know we won't be pushing it too hard this year. We are currently in an apartment till our new house is done being built, so garage space is kind of limited for working on the STI. It might just be better to stick with better brake pads that I don't have to change out till we have our garage done this fall.

 

Vents are on the short list as well as sway bars and perhaps some new springs as well. But that's probably going to be in the spring.

 

Thanks again guys. I really appreciate the help. Feel free to throw out any other ideas you may have for a STI that doubles as a mom-mobile and a HPDE car.

[clydesdale]

My opinion would be that you shouldn't do anything to your car except fluid and pads. Once you get to HPDE4 and are considering TT then do the research on the rules and on your car and decide if any upgrades (or a different car) are worthwhile. In a couple of years you'll appreciate this advice for two reasons. First, you'll have a car that is still comfortable to use every day and can easily be sold as unmodified. Second, you'll still have the money that you would have spent on upgrades to use to buy a new motor or repair the transmission or replace a stripped caliper; those sound extreme but are far more common than you suspect. The sacrifice you make will be a few seconds of speed which will more than likely be cut short by slower HPDE drivers anyway. Damn I wish I had taken my own advice.

[jbj]

My opinion would be that you shouldn't do anything to your car except fluid and pads. Once you get to HPDE4 and are considering TT then do the research on the rules and on your car and decide if any upgrades (or a different car) are worthwhile. In a couple of years you'll appreciate this advice for two reasons. First, you'll have a car that is still comfortable to use every day and can easily be sold as unmodified. Second, you'll still have the money that you would have spent on upgrades to use to buy a new motor or repair the transmission or replace a stripped caliper; those sound extreme but are far more common than you suspect. The sacrifice you make will be a few seconds of speed which will more than likely be cut short by slower HPDE drivers anyway. Damn I wish I had taken my own advice.

 

That sounds like a good idea. There is an HPDE event in Sept that my wife wants to try and that's exactly what I was thinking of doing. Just pads and fluid. Thanks again.

[ca18hatch24]

I have an evo ix, which uses the same size pads as the sti for the stock front brembos. I have been running the hawk dtc-60's for two years and cant say enough good things about them. You can get them pretty cheap if you are a NASA member (like 25 percent off). One set front and rear has lasted me through two seasons of HPDE (about 9 weekend events so far) and they are still showing a decent amount of life. Also, I have driven them on the street for probably 2-3k miles, and they do just fine cold, but they do squeak and dust quite a bit, if that bothers you. They just dont have that sharp initial bite when cold like they do when hot, so you have to use a little more pedal pressure. I would also put amsoil dot-4 fluid on yopur list. I believe it is cheaper than the rbf600, and I have yet to ever have a mushy pedal in two years, and have only bled once.

[n80]

I'd recommend Carbotech XP10s on the front and XP8s on the rear. These are reasonably affordable, will not overwhelm street tires and can be driven on the street (if you don't mind dust and noise). They have fantastic initial bite that will transform your track experience compared to street pads. I have never had an issue with fade on my #3300+ car.

 

Of course, good brake fluid is critical. No problems with ATE amber/super blue.

[t500hps]

I recently got my competition license after running through the HPDE ranks. Pads and fluids are cruitial starting off as stopping is more important than anything else your trying to do out there. Id even recommend waiting till group 3 before any suspension or tire changes. Personallly I've have great luck with Wilwood EXP fluid (but now use Castrol SRF) , and Carbotech pads. Some of my competitors regularly boilSuperblue but your not running hardenough yet to worry about that.

 

Make the car safe and it WILLbe fun!

[jbj]

Thanks guys. I got some RBF 600 to put in this week. I've never done a full fluid drain/swap, but after looking at a bunch of youtube videos, it appears quite simple. With only two more events this year, I think I'll wait on the pads for next year assuming they are still in good shape.

 

I just want the wife to have fun out there in HPDE 1.

[n80]

If they are street pads keep a close eye on them and bring some spares just in case. They can go away fast and that can ruin an expensive weekend at the track.

 

You can easily do a flush and fill with two people but with a Motive Power Bleeder you can do it even faster and with only one person. It isn't cheap but worth every penny if you plan on doing track days with any regularity. I bleed my brakes before each event and do a complete flush and fill each season.

 

http://www.motiveproducts.com

[oldskoolbiker]

I use HAWK DTC-60 Pads at the track on my Subaru. I would recommend getting good 600 degree DOT 4 fluid, also this part made a noticeable difference in pedal feel.

[slow down]

Granted that I am running more than stock power, but the HAWK HP+ pads are giving me significant pad fade.

 

I'm going to try Carbotech xp10s as mentioned earlier in this thread.

[Diller]

Granted that I am running more than stock power, but the HAWK HP+ pads are giving me significant pad fade.

 

I'm going to try Carbotech xp10s as mentioned earlier in this thread.

 

The Hawk HP+ are far from a true track pad. The DTC-60s/70s are a much better option for DE and racing.