sk8erord Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 On page 29 of the rules, it states: One (1) asterisk * on a base class assignment denotes a 7 point initial assessment, and two (2) asterisks ** denotes a 14 point initial assessment that is added to the total number of Modification Points to determine the final competition class. FORCED INDUCTION VEHICLES will add an additional five (+5) points to the total number of Modification Points to determine the final competition class. (Forced induction vehicles that have been classed or re-classed by the National TT Director based on Dyno testing are exempt from this additional five (+5) point assessment.) All factory options and other modifications by the factory that are not included in the base trim model (BTM) of the Vehicle Model Group must be assessed points. In general, if a BTM item is either removed or re-located, it shall be considered to have been “modified”. And on page 21: Ford Mustang 2.3L turbo ('15) TTB 3500 So because the BTM is a turbo, and was classed as such, do I still take the 5 point hit for being FI? There is no asterisk after it, but that paragraph about FI makes me think I do. It's a big question, because if I did the math right, including that 5 point hit, I'm right at 19 points. 2015 Ecoboost Premium | Perf Pack (Upgraded brakes and sways) | Cobb AP (MAP Tuned) | Full Race CAI | Custom Exhaust (just mufflers, no piping change) | Steeda Linear Sport Springs | Mishimoto FMIC Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKETODRIVE Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Correct. You take the +5. Are you sure you're at +19? Turbo car = +5 Brakes = +2 Sways = +2 Intake = +1 Custom Exhaust (just mufflers, no piping change) = +1 (assuming ZERO piping change and the mufflers were just swapped in alone) Springs = +2 And... 14) Add aftermarket intercooler +7 15) Non-BTM or modified intercooler +4 (Intercooler sprayers are not permitted unless they came on the OEM base trim model of the vehicle). Mishimoto FMIC = +7.....? That would be +20 total. Womp-womp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arca_ex Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Yeah you're only eligible for TTU/1/2/3 with that setup. Unless you do a dyno reclass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZELISE Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I believe it has an inter cooler in stock form. I am guessing the rest of his points are from tires. Are the shocks the same as BTM? Internet says "unique chassis tuning." Also, need to take points for the spoiler delete or put a BTM spoiler on the car I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKETODRIVE Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Ahh. Just noticed it comes with 255 tires not 265 tires so it would be +19 total (-1 for size; assuming said tires are just run-of-the-mill street tires and not +2 tires) And yes...it sounds stupid but you would have to put a spoiler back on to not eat up points for a removed/modified/etc rear decklid spoiler... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk8erord Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 The BTM offers the spoiler delete as a no cost option - still need to take points? Oh, and my buddy in AZ region emailed his TT director and he said no to the 5 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 ecu reflash used to be +2 for NA, +7 for FI, but there's no way to really verify it in the field so it moved to a free mod with the FI cars still taking the extra +5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arca_ex Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 The BTM offers the spoiler delete as a no cost option - still need to take points? Oh, and my buddy in AZ region emailed his TT director and he said no to the 5 points. Really? Which one said that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysinboost Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 The BTM offers the spoiler delete as a no cost option - still need to take points? Oh, and my buddy in AZ region emailed his TT director and he said no to the 5 points. I don't think its an issue of cost vs. no cost as much as it is between Base Trim Model (BTM) and other "trim" levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKETODRIVE Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 The BTM offers the spoiler delete as a no cost option - still need to take points? Does the most basic of 2.3L Turbo Mustangs that is base classed TTB roll off of the assembly line with or without a spoiler? That is your answer. And you take the +5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhdinyuma Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 This car as is gets 22 points so would be bumped up to TT3. It would be best if the OP wished to stay in TTB to remove the aftermarket FMIC which probably isn't worth the +4 points anyway. That way the car would be back to 18 points and be able to stay in TTB. It would stay there but be hard pressed to compete on stock tires and approximately 13 to 1 Power to weight when the class limit is 10.5 to 1. You could apply for a dyno reclass and see if that helps, it won't though since the car is already base classed with a turbocharger. Most factory turbo cars don't really benefit from a reclass in my experience so I wouldn't expect much help there (unless you have done a ton of other engine mods). Recommendation: Put the stock IC back on the car, Install a base trim spoiler . Both of these gain 8 points back which could then be used for a decent R Comp tire. Upgrade to E85 fuel and get a good tuner shop on board to help maximize the Power/Weight ratio closer to the class limit (Zero Points!!). Using a Toyo Proxes RR in 255X17 size would put the car at exactly 19 points. TIP: Use the TTB-F online class calculator 2015 to make the points process very easy and as accurate as possible. Find it here: https://www.nasaproracing.com/rules Points: +2 A,8 - Tires -1 A,10 - Tire Width +1 C,4 - CAI +4 C,15 - Aftermarket FMIC +1 C,24 - Mufflers +2 E5, - Springs +2 E7 - Rear Sway Bar +2 F1, - Brakes +4 G,4 - Rear Spoiler Delete +5 FI Penalty +22 Points = Bump to TT3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk8erord Posted October 7, 2015 Author Share Posted October 7, 2015 This car as is gets 22 points so would be bumped up to TT3. It would be best if the OP wished to stay in TTB to remove the aftermarket FMIC which probably isn't worth the +4 points anyway. That way the car would be back to 18 points and be able to stay in TTB. It would stay there but be hard pressed to compete on stock tires and approximately 13 to 1 Power to weight when the class limit is 10.5 to 1. You could apply for a dyno reclass and see if that helps, it won't though since the car is already base classed with a turbocharger. Most factory turbo cars don't really benefit from a reclass in my experience so I wouldn't expect much help there (unless you have done a ton of other engine mods). Recommendation: Put the stock IC back on the car, Install a base trim spoiler . Both of these gain 8 points back which could then be used for a decent R Comp tire. Upgrade to E85 fuel and get a good tuner shop on board to help maximize the Power/Weight ratio closer to the class limit (Zero Points!!). Using a Toyo Proxes RR in 255X17 size would put the car at exactly 19 points. TIP: Use the TTB-F online class calculator 2015 to make the points process very easy and as accurate as possible. Find it here: https://www.nasaproracing.com/rules Points: +2 A,8 - Tires -1 A,10 - Tire Width +1 C,4 - CAI +4 C,15 - Aftermarket FMIC +1 C,24 - Mufflers +2 E5, - Springs +2 E7 - Rear Sway Bar +2 F1, - Brakes +4 G,4 - Rear Spoiler Delete +5 FI Penalty +22 Points = Bump to TT3 Ugh. I bought the car, then my buddy convinced me to join NASA and start all this. The stock IC is a piece of garbage. It heatsoaks very quickly causing the engine to pull timing and thus, power. Well, I have a good long while before I'm out of HPDE and into TT anyways, so I guess I have some time to figure it out. Maybe I'll HPDE this and when it comes time for TT I'll find the funds to just get a $10k S2000 or something. =/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arca_ex Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Or like I said... keep all your stuff and get a dyno reclass... This way all engine mods and the +5 for forced induction goes away. Ask for a TT-B* base class with XXX HP (whatever you dyno at +3%) and he will give you a minimum weight. Also put the spoiler back on. Your power to weight will likely end up at around 11 to 12 lbs/HP so you can kind of guess when you get your dyno and send off the classing email. Probably pretty close to 300WHP and 3400lbs range just for an example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJo Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 when it comes time for TT I'll find the funds to just get a $10k S2000 or something. =/ Miata is always the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk8erord Posted October 7, 2015 Author Share Posted October 7, 2015 Thanks, guys. So much to learn and so much more... strategic than just modding your car for the street. Fun, though. And Miata is only the answer if it has a v8 in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Per Ford's list of the items in the 2015 EcoBoost Performance Package (red is mine): • K-Brace (need to know more about what, exactly, this is before assessing points) • Upsized Rear Sway Bar (+2 per E.7) • Unique Chassis Tuning (need to know more about what, exactly, this is before assessing points) • Larger Brake Rotors with 4-Piston Calipers (+2 per F.1) • 19” X 9” Gloss Black painted aluminum wheels (Summer Tires Only) (as previously mentioned, check tire widths) • Unique EPAS, ABS and stability control tuning (ABS tuning seems to be a freebie per I.f.4) • Aluminum Dash Panel (nothing to see here) • 3.55 Limited Slip Rear Axle (freebie) • Larger Radiator (freebie) • Heavy-Duty Front Springs (+2 per E.5) • Gauge Pack (Oil Pressure and Boost) (nada aqui) • Spoiler Delete (+4 per G.4) So, that's +10 right off the bat, for parts that will never make a difference that's worth +10. However, you would probably make some of those modifications, anyway (springs). As a brief history about the +5 for boosted cars, several years ago, an ECU flash was worth +X points for naturally aspirated cars and +Y points for boosted cars. The difference between +X and +Y was 5 points. When ECU flashes became "free" for naturally aspirated cars, it only made sense to keep +5 for boosted cars (the theory being that the power gain from flashing a boosted car's ECU would be much more of a gain than you would get from flashing a naturally aspirated car's ECU). Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhdinyuma Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 • 3.55 Limited Slip Rear Axle (freebie) It isn't really clear from my reading of the Ford Performance Package description whether or not the BTM Model of this car comes with an LSD or not. If not, then additional points would have to be added per: D4 - Added limited slip differential or welded/locked differential +3 The Ford description lists all the LSD's for this car as "Optional" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 • 3.55 Limited Slip Rear Axle (freebie) It isn't really clear from my reading of the Ford Performance Package description whether or not the BTM Model of this car comes with an LSD or not. If not, then additional points would have to be added per: D4 - Added limited slip differential or welded/locked differential +3 The Ford description lists all the LSD's for this car as "Optional" Agreed...I'm not sure about the BTM version of the EcoBoost axle, either. I was just guessing that it wouldn't come with the one-wheel-peel as base, but it might (more Googling is needed). If that's the case, then your +3 per D.4 is correct. This all makes me wonder if the base class of TTB 3500 is accurate or not for this car. With me (~190 lbs) and 1/4 tank of gas, my 2015 GT PP is 3960 lbs per a set of local truck scales (probably not the greatest accuracy). I can't see an EcoBoost car being 460 lbs lighter than that (without gutting), considering the entire 5.0 engine weighs about that much. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.