Car to Flag Station Communication?

[rwatts]

How do we communicate a track hazard from an HPDE driver to a flag station? Obviously we have one-way communication from the flagger to the driver but this past weekend we had a need for the reverse to occur. The following occurred at Summit Point Main: The first car coming off grid onto the track, during the warm up lap, started smoking badly and dumped crankcase oil on-line from the just beyond the start/finish line through the braking zone at turn one. During this yellow-flag warm-up lap, the first 5 cars immediately following the smoking car, began driving off-line and started waving their arms, vigorously pointing at the smoking car and pointing on the track (left arm outside the window) trying to get the flagger’s attention to communicate the hazard. This was repeated at each subsequent flag station around the track. By the way, there was a break in the grid and not all the cars could communicate (hand signal) to the car behind them. Unfortunately, the flagger’s never understood (some saw the smoking car but claimed not to see the drivers’ waving signals) nor did they recognize that oil was on the track. Subsequently, no black flag was thrown to the “smoking car” and the debris flag was never thrown. The oil dumping car pitted and the green flag was given. As a result, the first number of cars, aware of the hazard near turn one, stayed track right, and successfully negotiated the hazard but the rear of the grid was unaware of the hazard. One car was lost in a tire wall (the driver was uninjured).

 

Obviously, this could have been much worse. Those first few drivers had valuable information but had no effective means to communicate it. Could we devise a signal that would clearly and quickly indicate from a driver to a flagger that a serious on-track hazard exists? From this incident it’s clear that the signal must be visible from a distance and distinct from other outside car signals (passing signals and slow-down signals as well as the standard wave). In my experience over the last four years in HPDE this is a rare scenario but obviously there may be a time when it’s needed. Any thoughts?? --Ralph

[Eric J.]

Since there aren't any published standards on hand communication other than the few in the regs (arm out for pit, point to pass, etc.), the corner workers have no way of knowing what pointing or waving means unless the problem is obvious.

 

Those little handheld two-way radios (like what you can get at Best Buy) are getting pretty cheap. I got an inexpensive set that includes voice activation and a little headset that can be worn under the helmet. If you have a friend or pit person in the infield you can tell them of a problem and get it relayed clearly to race control. Other than that, there's no surefire way to communicate clearly to the corner workers.

[Frank Corkran]

Excellent question/suggestion, Ralph. I've had similar problems in the past trying to signal workers about debris/car situations, as well as the presence of (herds of) deer near the track. Never seem to have both hands free to mimic "antlers". Some type of universal "debris behind me/from car I'm pointing at" signal would be great. Perhaps it should cause a debris flag to be immediately requested at the previous station to alert drivers, plus it would alert the workers to look more closely for any visible car or track problem. If the problem was transient, such as deer or small water spills, no harm done and the flags come down after a couple laps anyway.

 

Later in the day I noticed several debris flags that I couldn't determine the reason for, so I'm guessing the incident has already heightened worker vigilance.

[Greg G.]

At the HPDE level, I would suggest that one of those five drivers that saw the oil dropped (especially an instructor) might have considered pulling into the black flag station and notifying the course workers/ race control instead of taking the green flag. At the racing level, hopefully someone with two-way communication could let their crew notify race control of the hazard. If the hazard was significant (and it sounds like it was if it put someone into a wall), then the session should have been black flagged or full-course yellowed for clean-up anyway.

 

Obviously this is a very difficult situation if the corner worker doesn't recognize the problem. I'm not sure how a hand signal from an HPDE driver is really going to accomplish much, except to have the corner worker try to scan his/her section of track better for debris. But unless they can see what the driver is seeing, it's not much help having a "we don't know what it's for" debris flag up. If the track is oiled in a high speed braking zone, then hot laps should be stopped before someone goes into a wall.

[white_2kgt]

In HPDE, on a Double Yellow lap, if the corner works are really that 'out to lunch' not to see an oil slick. I'd pull over right in front of them and yell it out the window. I'd hope they could see me pull over and cover me w/ a flag. I wasn't there Sunday but I heard about in later that night.

[Guest]

I thought about pulling over, but didn't think that was safe.

 

I think it may be enough if we just honk our horns. The workers might take a closer look.

[rwatts]

Greg, good point made and one that I'll follow from now on. By the way, this was a Group 4 session. I was one of the five (actually number 3). The start/finish line, where a "debris" flag would have been displayed, is not visible from pit in which is between turns 9 and 10 (Turn 10 is the last turn leading to the 1/2 mile straight and turn 1). Pitting and informing the pit marshall was the only feasible option and may have, depending when the rest of the pack hit turn one under green, prevented this incident. Regardless, it's what I'll do from now on (a lesson learned and the main reason for this post!). Unfortunately, and I can't speak for the others, I thought, especially with all the smoke coming from the vehicle, the flailing arms of the following cars, combined with the fact that all of the lead cars drove off-line on track right approaching the right-handed turn one, that the corner worker realized the track had been oiled and would have a debris flag flying at the start finish line the following lap (the first hot lap). I was shocked when I didn't see any warning flags and then it was too late for notification until the next lap...too late to prevent the incident.

 

Now if we had a distinct signal to give to the corner worker, something as obvious as flashing headlights, the flag station could have thrown the debris flag, started looking for the hazard and may have spotted it. They then could have determined if a black flag was necessary. I'm just trying to get some collective creative juices flowing to try to identify a way to immediately alert a flag station of a debris hazard.

[white_2kgt]

something as obvious as flashing headlights

 

you have headlights

[Greg G.]

Luckily, this situation doesn't happen often, and usually the corner worker will recognized the problem as it occurs. However, it would be very difficult for a corner worker to actually see the oil on the track if he missed the smoking car and the 5 cars that drove off-line, depending on the track view from the station. In fact there have been many times when I've been racing that a debris flag was waving, and I never saw the hazard despite looking for it (and maybe driving very close to it?). So, in the case of a slippery liquid on the track, even if the next corner worker was notified by a driver's flashing lights or some other signal, they still would probably not find the problem (they now have two full station's worth of track to find the oil spill that can almost be invisible at times). And, although I understand what you are trying to accomplish, it seems to me that there needs to be real dialogue ASAP to help prevent an incident. At the same time, we don't want to prematurely stop a session because someone drops a little water or gas (that will evaporate quickly) from an overflow situation.

So, if it was decided to use some type of recognized signal by a driver to the course workers, I would suggest that a requirement go with the use of such a signal that the driver immediately go to the hot pits to explain the problem.

[rwatts]

... I would suggest that a requirement go with the use of such a signal that the driver immediately go to the hot pits to explain the problem.

I totally agree. The process would be: The driver signals the corner worker, the corner worker throws the debris flag and the driver pits and explains the hazard. The track officials now have enough information to quickly investigate and take the appropriate actions. Meanwhile, the rest of the field has a fighting chance. I see potential for this working in HPDEs. Now to come up with a suitable signal.

[96LT1]

Luckily, this situation doesn't happen often, and usually the corner worker will recognized the problem as it occurs. However, it would be very difficult for a corner worker to actually see the oil on the track if he missed the smoking car and the 5 cars that drove off-line, depending on the track view from the station. In fact there have been many times when I've been racing that a debris flag was waving, and I never saw the hazard despite looking for it (and maybe driving very close to it?). ......

So, if it was decided to use some type of recognized signal by a driver to the course workers, I would suggest that a requirement go with the use of such a signal that the driver immediately go to the hot pits to explain the problem.

 

I was one of those cars immediately behind "the oiler"...

 

Thankfully something like this doesn't happen often. Coming back around after the initial lap and seeing a car strewn across the track because of a condition that you were aware of but could not convey to the corner workers is NOT a pleasant feeling.

 

I've been thinking about maybe a small flag maybe 2" or 3" wide by 6" to 8" in length. It could be stored right next to the driver and the driver could hold it up out of the window. It might be hard to find the yellow and red but just yellow might be enough. A small ring (similar to a plastic shower curtain ring) could be used for a hand/finger hold.

[rwatts]

...a small flag maybe 2" or 3" wide by 6" to 8" in length.

 

At first, I thought this idea may cause its own safety problems but I really can't think of anything other than the potential of someone trying to grab the flag and losing focus on controlling their vehicle. Let's run a scenario on how this could be implemented safely. The driver sees a hazard which is between flag stations. The driver, with his car stable, grabs the "oil flag" and displays it to the next flag station. The flag station would display the debris flag at that station and notify the preceeding flag station to also display the debris flag. The driver then pits-in and relays the information to the pit marshall. If the debris was very close to a flag station, and the "oil flag" can't be safely displayed in time, the driver could safely display it at the next station. What do the rest of you think??

[Frank Corkran]

I totally agree. The process would be: The driver signals the corner worker, the corner worker throws the debris flag and the driver pits and explains the hazard. The track officials now have enough information to quickly investigate and take the appropriate actions. Meanwhile, the rest of the field has a fighting chance. I see potential for this working in HPDEs. Now to come up with a suitable signal.

 

I would add that when the worker reports this, the previous station is immediately ordered to display the debris flag. This would also work for transient situations, such as a herd of deer standing near the track. I never seem to have both hands free to give the "antlers" imitation to the flag stand. Maybe I'll try "Go, Longhorns" next time.

 

I was like you, I didn't pit because it just didn't seem possible no one in any of the towers would have reported in that all cars were driving offline on the entire lap while pointing at the track (oil line), with the lead car trailing a cloud of smoke. Check that, the car who lost his oil supply didn't drive offline. When I saw that car drive into the pits I believed race control must be aware of a problem. I told my student that we would probably get black flag all on the next lap, but I though it would be beneficial for him to do one more lap showing how to see and deal with an oil trail on the track. The wreck had already happened by the time I exited T10, in fact the rescue vehicle was already headed to the scene.

 

I don't think anyone who was involved is faulting the folks in the towers. The angle of the sun made the oil trail easy to see from track level as you got close, other places the trail wasn't that obvious unless you were looking for it. Pulling over on track would get a yellow displayed, but it would also put approaching drivers' attention on the stopped car as the reason for the flag, which in this case would have insured they drove into the oil.

 

A clear hand signal would also help in that the pointing at the oil looked a lot like a passing signal. I thought the C5 was pointing me around as we exited the pits until I moved left and saw the oil. I wonder if the SR driver mistook a point at the oil as a passing signal from a slow, offline car?

[rwatts]

I thought the C5 was pointing me around as we exited the pits until I moved left and saw the oil. I wonder if the SR driver mistook a point at the oil as a passing signal from a slow, offline car?

On the green flag lap I stopped pointing for that very reason, ending any chance of further communication with the flaggers. And concerning the flaggers, we were on a yellow warm-up lap and many drivers wave to the flag stations to acknowledge the yellow flag. Our signalling wasn't distinct enough for them to realize our intent. It wasn't their fault. It just surprized me they didn't pickup on the heavily smoking lead car and the potential for an oiled track.

Edited October 18, 2005 by Guest

[Ev]

I was on the radio and heard the corners call the smoking car. I also responded to the incident (the driver was a friend of mine). Even after getting there to the scene, I didn't see the oil right away. The area where the oil was is in the braking zone and is normally darker than the rest of the track. I know also there were some new flaggers on that station who may not have known what to look for as this was their first event.

 

I guess we can chalk this one up to; a learning curve on the workers part, one of those "track" incidents and a lesson learned by all.

 

I have worked the corners and know it's sometimes hard to pay attention to everything that is going on. Even if there was a debris flag at start, it may have been missed as it was hard to see unless you knew what you were looking for. Having a smoking car in front of you is a pretty good indication to look for oil.

 

As far as commnuication goes, you did the right thing. That is the best thing to do (point and wave). Hopefully, the corners will get the hint. If not, pull in to the pits and talk to the officials.

[rwatts]

Well, based on the responses so far, I think the best action to take is to try to communicate to the flag station and immediately hot-pit and inform the pit marshall of the hazard; don't wait a lap to see if they threw the debris flag. Thanks for everyone's input. If your an instructor, at the next Instuctors' meeting you attend, please pass this recommendation along. Thanks.