Tri-Agan Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 and will stay there for 2009. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ls168camaro Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Jim-could you give us a little more info. on your motor and how you have 5k in it. You said many know about it and that it is legal in every way makes me think it is some sort of a max build?? What corrected the problem. Looks like real good numbers from a 305. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camaro_1le Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Jim-could you give us a little more info. on your motor and how you have 5k in it. You said many know about it and that it is legal in every way makes me think it is some sort of a max build?? What corrected the problem.Looks like real good numbers from a 305. Long story. Received my comp license July 2007, that weekend promptly spun a main bearing in my original 85,000 mile 305. So wanting to race, I simply ordered a new 305 long block from GM and had it installed ($2400). Spent the last two race weekends of 2007 with the worse 305 in the world. The dyno numbers were 190/300 all coming in at about 2700 RPM. Took it to two different shops, one being a Chevrolet dealer. Add another $600 and the problems persisted. In December of 2007, I pulled the valve covers and started to do research. Spoke with Sam Strano about it and he did some research. Turns out that GM no longer makes the LB9 motor. When ordering with the VIN F code, you simply get the 93+ 305 that was used in trucks. It has a peanut cam and swirl port heads. Now I was pissed and figured how hard is to figure this crap out. Took the heads off the original 305 and sent them out to be checked. That tab came to about $300. I installed the original 081 heads and LB9 cam from my own motor in the very expensive new short block Figure another $200 for gaskets and other misc pieces. The dyno numbers for the rebuild were 231/304. Not bad for my first time. From February through June the car notched 3 third places and 1 second place finish. In June of 2008, the secondary fan sensor worked loose, spraying water from the right cylinder head onto the exhaust. This was the last lap of the Sunday race. The computer shut the car down and it sat about 1/2 mile from the finish with a very high temp. For the remainder of 2008, I could not figure out what was happening when the temp was getting over 180. It did it on the dyno and on the track. It seemed to drop a cylinder. We chased a number of issues. Replacing the distributor, balancer, 02 sensor etc, etc another $500. This winter I did a pressure test and pulled the heads. Found water in cylinder 6. So the heads were sent off and the right side had warped slightly. Otherwise they were fine. So another $300 to deck them less than 2cm and shim the springs. Now toss in another $100 or so for new gaskets and sensors. I was curious about the 305 making CMC2 numbers with the allowed mods. I was under the assumption the 305 would be in chart 2. So I spoke to my regional director about what rockers to put into the car. I had the originals (well used the ones from the 2007 long block). I opted to try the 1.6 full roller rockers. Figured no way they would help much and it was a test. While I was at it, I replaced all of the injectors with Bosch 19lb (stock pressure) at around $200. I did keep the original fuel regulator. I would not say it is a max build. It has not been bored or blue printed. It started as a brand new long block, original 081 heads, the original LB9 cam and original TPI. It has been a huge learning experience. I can tear the motor down in an evening, swap rockers in about 30 minutes, etc, etc, etc. I had never torn a motor apart before 2007. So when someone mentions that I don't have much in it, they are way off base. And even further off base using profanity. I do feel confident that Mike's suggestions would easily make the power for a 305 in CMC2 based upon chart 2. Quite frankly, I thought it was a joke when I first heard about it. Oh, it was not just the head that was causing it to drop a cylinder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 OK .. that clears a lot of stuff up for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camaro_1le Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 OK .. that clears a lot of stuff up for me. You read it already? A damn Greek tragedy isn't it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tri-Agan Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 A damn Greek tragedy isn't it If you stay in 1 it is.........but that's ok with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 fair enough. but realize that what little you did goes a long ways to helping resolve the issue w/ the 3rd gens. it will just take time. from this post you should have seen that i was on your side. but instead you decide everyone is out to get you after a long list of mistakes on your part. So when someone mentions that I don't have much in it, they are way off base. And even further off base using profanity. so next time before you jump my ass for patting you on your back for providing usefull data, you may remember this incident and think your perspective is all wrong. realize we are all in this together and are doing the best we can w/ what we have. you are the very first person to make such a request. and its only been a week. from your POV we should bend over backwards and jump thru hoops making rules changes and trust you havent made a mistake like the one you made w/ the ..... oh..... wrong motor in your CMC car? i've lived on the east coast for a short time. no way thats the first bad word you have had come in contact w/ your poor little ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camaro_1le Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Jim is in a pickle, he can move back to CMC or go forward to CMC2. The latter may require some form of rules exception and/or rules update and the directors have that authority. Mike Yup and that was the offical, non-forum request that was made. I had requested an exception that would allow my Camaro to run in CMC2 provided the dyno numbers with headers fell within chart 2. Otherwise, I was caught in limbo with the season 30 days away from starting. With the courteous exchange and knowing what lays ahead, if any other 305TPI folks are interested in picking up where I have left off for 2009, please email me privately and I will share with you what I have so far. If someone had a set of SLP or Dyno Don headers laying around, that would be perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustang72 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 and will stay there for 2009. Jim, haven't you learned not to listen to Kent yet? Move to CMC2! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Stone1548534713 Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 I have a brand new, ready to rock 305 with all the good stuff. ARP bolts, canton pan, new rods, new pistons, new everything except the block and heads. Never put in a car yet. Balanced and blue printed. You can have the whole thing with new intake and carb for $3000. Now there's a deal. If you're going to spend five grand this will save you $1500 and it will make good numbers. PS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alien Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 does anybody have real dyno test numbers under the new CMC2 engine rules for the 3rd gen GMC cars ? either 5 lt or 5.7 lt .... carb or TPI ????? Halfway thru the season... anyone running a 3G in CMC2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmc38camaro Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I brought out a new 3rd gen in CMC2 last weekend. It's a 305 TPI car with 1.6 roller rockers and shorty headers. Power is disappointing at 236 hp and 302 torque. The engine wasn't dyno'd prior to the headers and rollers so I can't say how much power they add. I will start diagnosing the lack of power next weekend. I suspect either low compression or a small cam. On the good news side, the headers and rollers wake the engine up on the high end to some degree. It doesn't start wheezing at 4800 like a TPI does in stock trim. Dave Shotz is running a 350 TPI 3rd gen in the Socal Region. I'll let Dave tell his story. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerslide91 Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Looking forward to more info here. My plan is to start prepping a L98 later this year. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Schotz Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Hi guys... I have most recently dynoed at ButtonWillow Raceway... Saturday after the race... my car dynoed a best ever 236 RWHP & 333 RWTQ... (However.. that run was a fluke run.. but I'll take it... my 'dyno cert' on the same dyno after spending a whole day there on Friday was 225HP 330TQ. (Which was typical with what I found on my local dyno... you typically have to choke it down so much just to get the TQ down below the 337 Peak number) We figured the difference could have been bad gas? But none the less... these are my dyno numbers. Unfortunately, my opinion is if your going to race in CMC2.. 260 HP is what it takes to compete (or consider it 'Table 2' is what it takes). Table 3 only makes the cars 'a 1/2 second' at best quicker than a comparable CMC1 car. at the end of the day (what I have learned through this) is that HP is all that matters... if we were all required to run 'OEM Gearing'... than the overwhelming Torque may be able to level the playing field, but since gears are free... those with less HP just gear their cars to stay up in the HP Band. Weeks has some video he posted from BW race, his mustang is making 254 RWHP and you can see him easily drive away from my car coming out of the corners, on the straights etc... http://www.myspace.com/weeksworksracing Most that have seen my car run, all agree it needs more HP to be competitive. Racing against Nick's 264 RWHP was far from fun! CMC2 (IMO) needs the TQ table removed... and just focus on the HP number.. adjust with weight if necessary... but Table 2 cars are just 'fast CMC1 cars' (IMHO) If you want a competitive 3rd Gen in CMC2... you'll need to put a carb on the car... so you get the Table 2 like the rest of the class. At this point... after running the car in 4 races... we'll start getting the LS1 car ready for CMC2... since it can make the 260HP number all day. If I'm going to spend $1,000 more dollars to put intake, heads, cam etc... for spec carb pkg on the 3rd gen... at this point... I'd put the car in AI... and make more power not less. Hope they get CMC2 figured out... as Mike noticed the same thing on the straight aways... but at least the 305 car with Headers & rockers, actually extend the RPM range... whereas the 350 car ends up getting choked down even more... and you have no RPM range. Hope this helps! Peace, Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiMifan Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 at the end of the day (what I have learned through this) is that HP is all that matters... Hasn't that been determined before, back when the LT1s could run heavy at 250hp? Those who fail to heed the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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