Alien Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I have not heard anything official, but before our first (Texas) event, it was relayed that there is a possibility of 16" RA1s going away. As a third gen driver with a few sets of 16's, I've had some time to let this sink in, and I think I now have my thoughts together. Another racer has been told by two tire vendors that Toyo IS stopping production of 16" RA1's. The tires are still available for purchase, but once that stock runs out, that's it. On another front there has been talk of CMC eventually switching to the Toyo RR. Every racer I have personally talked to are not excited at all about running a faster, grippier tire. Either way, I have not seen anything definite about offering or not offering a 16" RR. This brings up a few scenarios and questions. One scenario is to ignore the possible switch to the RR, and focus on the phasing out of the 16" RA1. As it sits now, I believe that you can buy a '92* Mustang or Camaro off the showroom floor, throw in the required safety gear, and go racing in CMC. No, you will not be fast or competitive. My understanding is that there is NO rule in the current rule set that FORCES a racer to spend money on a performance item unless they chose to do so. Why would forcing 17's on everyone be ok? Another scenario is that if racers are FORCED to buy 17" RA1's along with 17" wheels, and then CMC goes to the RR tire. If Toyo then does produce a 16" RR, there will be a ton of effort and money wasted by racers who were forced to buy 17" wheels. I would want some solid answers from Toyo before moving 'forward'. I know the following post quotes posts from years ago, but I feel it should still be valid in reguards to the spirit of CMC. http://www.camaromustangchallenge.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=35461#35461 I am opposed to the possible switch to the RR; we simply don't need it. I am even more opposed to continuing a relationship with Toyo if they force our series to change. I would hope that 'the powers that be' seriously look at this and prepare for the option of using another manufacturer (BFG, Yoke, Dunlop etc). It's been said many times by many fellow racers... "I'm fine with running a sucky slow tire, as long as everyone else is running it too." I am curious of how the directors are going to handle this situation. - Gary R. *I say '92 because I understand that it is possible to buy a car with 15" (14"?) wheels, but finding stock, factory 16" wheels from the same model really isn't difficult or costly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastntim Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 From what I have heard from several sources is that, at this point, TOYO will NOT be making a 16" RR tire and that the 16" RA1's will be discontinued. I believe that TOYO sells a very small quantity of these tires and that is why they are discontinuing them. That is why I am happily testing a brand new set of 17"rims this year. If these rims do what I expect, I think it will allow me to better compete against the 4th gens. I think you give the Directors far too much credit with respect to their ability to change tire manufacturers. The fact is that TOYO just renewed its sponsorship with NASA so I don't see it easily switching away from it. For me, if the new RR tire can match or exceed RA1's in performance AND durability at the same price, then I would gladly try them. Even though Cassidy Tire and TIRESDIRECT.NET do a great job shaving the RA1's, it will make it easier for them to quickly ship tires with no shaving. The biggest downside I see is getting caugt in rain on tires with absolutely no tread. In the past, if the weather was iffy, you could use a new set of shaved TOYOs as good quasi rain tires if you have them and the weather is threatening but not actually raining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadracerwhite Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I think you give the Directors far too much credit with respect to their ability to change tire manufacturers. The fact is that TOYO just renewed its sponsorship with NASA so I don't see it easily switching away from it. You hit the nail on the head there. Al may have some influence, but I don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted January 28, 2013 Members Share Posted January 28, 2013 Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on your point of view, the CMC directors have almost no influence on tire choice. We provide NASA with feedback we get from you, and we add in our opinion, but we dont get to choose. Our long term tire choice is set by NASA. It is an unfortunate reality that the 16" RA1 is going away. I would not expect Toyo to make the RR in 16" either. We will have good influence on if and when to adopt the RR because the RA1 is slated to remain in production. As has been stated, the RR doesnt even exist in 275/17 yet and wont until some time this summer, so I wouldnt expect us to move that way until 2015 at the earliest unless early testing (in our size/weight/power) just blows our mind regarding durability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 And going forward, if we switch to the RR, the RA1 full tread will be a legal wet tire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTW Motorsports Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I spoke to the Toyo reps at the PRI show in December about the availability of these tires in 2013. They told me that the tires will definitely be discontinued after this year and did hint at production stopping sometime soon and letting the distributor inventory clear out. Their reasoning was that the size was an oddball and it was time to phase it out like their street tires of the same size. I'm pretty close to some of the tire manufacturers (as a wheel manufacturer) and they have all told me that their policy is to eliminate slow selling sizes and styles of street and race tires over the near future (if they haven't already done so). That is a corporate decision, not a motorsports industry support one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alien Posted January 28, 2013 Author Share Posted January 28, 2013 I know the directors make the CMC rules and don't have much say with the Toyo contract, hence me saying 'the powers that be', since I didn't know exactly who actually makes that decision. [Rhetorical Question] So, that being the case, when NASA signed the contract with Toyo, were they fully aware the ramifications that Toyo was now effectively changing the rules of our class and costing certain racers money? Was NASA even aware at the time the contract was signed that Toyo was planning on discontinuing a currently used tire? [/RQ] What gets me not only is the somewhat short notice (unlike the years of talk of the CMC1/2 merger), but the finality of it. It's not like the hp upgrade "required" for CMC2. In Texas, we had a guy run a CMC1 spec car in CMC and do pretty decent. We had another guy run waaay under power last year. Every existing rule allows the racer to build up the car at their own pace, financial or otherwise. This whole 16" tire deal is a shot to the head. You want to continue to race in CMC? Buy 17" wheels. I realize there's not much that can be done about the situation. I am surpised tho at the lack of chatter about it tho. Interestingly enough, the ones impacted most by this rule change will be the same ones who spent the most for the CMC1/2 merger (5.0 cars). I can accept the deal, but I don't have to be happy with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suck fumes1548534743 Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 The Toyo RR is not faster by any measurable amount than a 2-3/32 RA1. The only plus side to the RR is you don't have to shave them which takes away the guessing game knowing which thickness of a shave the track likes. The RR's are however very fragile meaning that there is actually a specific way/direction you have to mount them otherwise the tread will split in the middle after a few sessions. More of a pain in the butt tire than the RA1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastntim Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 The RR's are however very fragile meaning that there is actually a specific way/direction you have to mount them otherwise the tread will split in the middle after a few sessions. More of a pain in the butt tire than the RA1. This is a concern but hopefully something that TOYO will be able to correct as they ramp up their manufacturing process. I don't see how they cannot as the liability they could face upon some catastrophic failures will be too high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundguydave1548534741 Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Just as a data point, and ONLY as a data point, on my S197, 3300lbs, 313HP, 331TQ, I got a little over five hours of run time at Road America on a single set of Hoosier R6 (275/35-18 ) without rotation, and had good meat left at the end of the weekend, excepting the left-front, which I corded (The Carousel...). Assuming that the RR is not as soft as the R6, it should last longer, assuming they can get the separation issue under control. I'm not a huge fan of the RA1, given the need for shaving (and not all shave jobs are equal, if you get my meaning), which drives the price right up to Hoosier money, for a less-grippy tire that really doesn't last all that much longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suck fumes1548534743 Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Agreed!! NASA should have followed SCCA and gotten Hoosier to be the spec tire and had them brand it as such and give us a good price. Like what they did with miatas in SCCA. Called it the SM6 tire even though its the same as the R6 and they give everyone a $40/tire price break. Now the Hoosiers do drop off a lot in grip after the 5th heat cycle (almost a full second) but then again so do the Toyos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteL Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Just got this email from Toyo in answer to my query as to when they plan to discontinue RA1s in 16" size. Thank you for contacting Toyo Tires USA. Toyo is not currently discontinuing any sizes for the Proxes RA1 and we are unable to advise if or when we might choose to discontinue this product or certain sizes. Sincerely, Consumer Relations Toyo Tires U.S.A. Corp. 5665 Plaza Drive Suite 300 Cypress, CA 90630 800-442-8696 Sounds like the typical cover your ass statement that sounds like a denial but really isn't. Has NASA contacted Toyo? Might be a good idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Just got this email from Toyo in answer to my query as to when they plan to discontinue RA1s in 16" size. Thank you for contacting Toyo Tires USA. Toyo is not currently discontinuing any sizes for the Proxes RA1 and we are unable to advise if or when we might choose to discontinue this product or certain sizes. Sincerely, Consumer Relations Toyo Tires U.S.A. Corp. 5665 Plaza Drive Suite 300 Cypress, CA 90630 800-442-8696 Sounds like the typical cover your ass statement that sounds like a denial but really isn't. Has NASA contacted Toyo? Might be a good idea Yes they have. This all came about as a result of a conversation the Texas AI/CMC guys had w/ the AI/CMC National Directors during our 2012 Season Awards Banquet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHISSTC Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 So which is it? Do I need to start saving my pennies for new 17" wheels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteL Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Al tells me they are going away but Toyo hasn't said when. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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