Administrators Roman V. Posted January 28, 2019 Administrators Share Posted January 28, 2019 2019 Rules are out! Lots of changes. Read carefully. Official press release: https://nasaspeed.news/columns/nasa-news/nasa-announces-new-endurance-racing-class-rules-for-2019/ Rules: https://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/enduro.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_h Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 (edited) Anyone want a NIB rear wing? So much for those upgrades. So who is likely to run in E1 now? The Spec E46 guys will have trouble making the weight/power work for those cars. Won't most of the E0 cars stay in E0? I didn't see many ST4 cars in the database. Edited January 28, 2019 by rob_h 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ron G. Posted January 28, 2019 Members Share Posted January 28, 2019 So much simpler!! Glad the powers that be went this direction! Really will give all the same opportunity to compete in their respective class! E2 will get entries this year! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ron G. Posted January 29, 2019 Members Share Posted January 29, 2019 2 hours ago, rob_h said: Anyone want a NIB rear wing? So much for those upgrades. So who is likely to run in E1 now? The Spec E46 guys will have trouble making the weight/power work for those cars. Won't most of the E0 cars stay in E0? I didn't see many ST4 cars in the database. The change is good for me...because I was an ST4 who had to run E0. I dont know your situation but wont you just move into E2? I was originally classed PTC and was very competitive in E1 with the BMW and MX5 cup cars...they basically stay the same just move back to E2(ST5) correct? ST5 allows areo doesnt it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian L. Posted January 29, 2019 Members Share Posted January 29, 2019 Fantastic! Simple, class any car, fair and competitive. I’m guessing there will be some people who are upset because they will maybe change classes, have to bolt on a wing, etc. But let’s all think of the long term health of NASA racing. Let’s all imagine huge ST3, ST4, ST5 fields all having their separate enduro classes to compete fairly in. Super excited about this. Valkyrie for one is considering running the new ST1 power capped ES class. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
technikpodcast Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 As a SpecE46 guy, we will find a way into e2. Our cars make it into E1 by like .25 HP just another bolt on (of weight) @Jeremy croiset I just hope to see some long term consistency. I will say this makes things so much easier big picture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Peter O. Posted January 29, 2019 Members Share Posted January 29, 2019 Spec Miata, Spec E30 and 944 Spec have their own sub class in E3, but where do the other spec classes map? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_h Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 (edited) My team and I have no interest in racing ST sprint races. We do sprint racing with BMW CCA and the config for the cars is totally different. You can say things like "bolt on a wing" but I think there is a lot more to race car aerodynamics and setup than "bolt on a wing." At least that's the impression I get from all of my aeronautical engineering friends. You're excited because you're looking at it through the NASA ST Group Leader and Valkyrie lens and I understand that. While I understand the logic of the class simplification, I doubt the wisdom of the move as I think it makes NASA endurance racing less approachable. I'm not sure what problem NASA was solving with these changes. I am curious to see who runs E1. This is especially frustrating as we've made significant investments to move to that class, and now have to figure out how to make the car work in E2 again. Keep in mind that we are two weeks out from testing and like a lot of racers, we started thinking about next season literally the Monday after the 25. Edited January 29, 2019 by rob_h wording 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_h Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 17 minutes ago, Peter Oneppo said: Spec Miata, Spec E30 and 944 Spec have their own sub class in E3, but where do the other spec classes map? Peter, I think your best bet is E2. The Spec E46 fits there with a little more weight than the required minimum for Spec E46. The Spec tire width works in E2 as well. Pay attention to the rear camber arm rule when classing the car. It could be easy to overlook when doing the form, but would make you non-compliant. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC/SampsonRacingComm. Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 None of us have a crystal ball but a lot of time and effort has been put into making the classes easier to approach, keep cost in check and regulated. We know that not everyone would be 100% happy with the move especially those who have built outlier cars for their class... BUT - The focus is that to move forward the WERC needed to make the classes simpler to understand, Keep the cost in check and make it simpler for Rules to be followed. My suggestion would be to work within the rules, figure out where your car works the best and enjoy 1st world issues :) We do this for fun and the opportunity to enjoy life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Peter O. Posted January 29, 2019 Members Share Posted January 29, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, rob_h said: The Spec E46 fits there with a little more weight than the required minimum for Spec E46. If there's no map from SE46, that sucks. A MAJOR factor into why I chose to invest $35K+ into a Spec E46 was so that I could run my car competitively in E1 and sprints without having to make a bunch of modifications between racing. I feel like there should be more open discussion and time before making this level of rule change. Why not make these the proposed 2020 rules and give everyone some time to debate and prepare? I really like the idea of simplicity, the tire rule changes makes a ton of sense, and ST is a solid format, but there are potentially a lot of unintended consequences to these changes that we're not going to figure out in the 6 weeks before the first WERC race. Edited January 29, 2019 by Peter Oneppo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_h Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, SRC/SampsonRacingComm. said: None of us have a crystal ball but a lot of time and effort has been put into making the classes easier to approach, keep cost in check and regulated. We know that not everyone would be 100% happy with the move especially those who have built outlier cars for their class... BUT - The focus is that to move forward the WERC needed to make the classes simpler to understand, Keep the cost in check and make it simpler for Rules to be followed. My suggestion would be to work within the rules, figure out where your car works the best and enjoy 1st world issues We do this for fun and the opportunity to enjoy life Shawn, we do this for fun? I thought it was to crush our enemies and see them driven them before us. To hear the wailing and lamentations of their significant others. This would not have been so frustrating if we weren't well down the path to moving up to E1 under the old rules. Had I not changed anything we would have been okay. Edited January 29, 2019 by rob_h tense shift 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC/SampsonRacingComm. Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 ?? “I thought it was to crush our enemies and drive them before us. To hear the wailing and lamentations of their significant others. “ Ok now that your done kicking your feet... get your car ready to race E2 so I have a opportunity to beat you or drive that bad boy to a checker flag finish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
technikpodcast Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 There is a legit issue on how these rule changes are delivered. It's basically February and the first race is in like a month. Please don't confuse what I am saying, I think the changes make sense. And I think people need to remember that NASA has a bigger picture to look at beyond just our small eco-system. BUT!!!!! some of the gaps and adjustments that will be made through this year could have been addressed with a better understanding of what the teams have to do to get ready on our spare time to go racing. Had NASA not waited till the end of the year to start figuring new classification out, and then announce it in February. Or given people some heads up that changes were coming and it would behoove teams to wait until they made changes to their cars. I think as a result the teams are feeling under pressure to try and figure out how to put the horse back in the barn, as they have already made plans for 2019. This will all be discussed on the Technik Podcast in March (shameless plug) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Neil D. Posted January 29, 2019 Members Share Posted January 29, 2019 Oneppo - The SpecE46 fits very easily into E2 now so you can still go endurance racing with a very similar car to what you race sprint with. This classing makes it EASIER to be competitive in an unmodified SE46. Yeah you'll have to add 50lbs and a rear wing (darn!) but it certanly outweights adding the crazyness you'd have to add to keep up with cars previously allowed in E1 like GT4 (SCCA) or PS0 (NASA), or USTCC. Lets work to have a structured approach to any rule changes we want for next year. I think we can all be a bit more involved ahead of time so its not such a surprise when they change. SpecE30 just went through this when they changed the spec suspension to a coilover. The day that was announced the internet was on fire and folks were hemming and hawing about what a terrible surprise it was and you know what happened? The cars that finished in the top 10 had both kinds of suspensions showing that it didn't make a difference except adding adjustments to suit drivers comforts (and helped me with a bent frame!). So in the end we'll still be racing the same fun enduros with the same people but it'll be a little simpler to class us all. The rules are out and pretty simple to comply with so lets get to the first race and see how it goes. I look forward to racing with you all! Most of you have it but my cell phone number is 760-521-4689. Happy to help answer any questions or lend a shoulder to cry on anytime 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC/SampsonRacingComm. Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 That-a-Boy Neil "lend a shoulder to cry on anytime " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Peter O. Posted February 3, 2019 Members Share Posted February 3, 2019 On 1/29/2019 at 3:15 PM, NeilMFD said: you'll have to add 50lbs and a rear wing I think I've figured out how to map my car to E2, but it looks more like 150lbs of ballast, which is pretty significant. The tires are going to be a challenge too since the spec RRs are terrible for ST5 since they don't have the traction of the other tires under 100 tread wear but you still have to carry the added weight. A wing would require even more ballast, so I'm not even going down that path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rikgray Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Excellent rule changes. Separating SU into ESR from ST1-2 into ES makes another competitive class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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