racerjon1 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 In weight reduction section removal of the instrument panel is mentioned for adding points, what about substitution of instrument panel? Later in the rules it talks about Data Aquisition, and allows a NASA approved unit, would that mean substitution of stock instrument panel with Data box is 0 points? Does it stop at TTU if the vehicle is still a street car or does TTR count as one of the classes it goes up to? For instance: TTC class car + 5 classes (111 points) does that mean TTU or TTR? Jon K http://www.racerjon.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted January 14, 2006 National Staff Share Posted January 14, 2006 In weight reduction section removal of the instrument panel is mentioned for adding points, what about substitution of instrument panel? Later in the rules it talks about Data Aquisition, and allows a NASA approved unit, would that mean substitution of stock instrument panel with Data box is 0 points? Does it stop at TTU if the vehicle is still a street car or does TTR count as one of the classes it goes up to? For instance: TTC class car + 5 classes (111 points) does that mean TTU or TTR? Jon K http://www.racerjon.com If your substitution results in weight reduction, then you need to take the +1 point. These are the approved data acquisition systems in the NASA CCR, section 18.7 G Analyst Hot Lap Timer Hot Lap Performance Monitor Intercomp Lap Timer My Chron Light My Chron 2 My Chron 3 My Chron 3+ My Chron 3 Gold TachMate 5-Input system DL-90 Data Logger GTech Pro SS GTech Pro RR Traqmate Basic If your vehicle has a base class of TTB or lower, you cannot be classed higher than TTU by modification points. However, if you add a sequential or dog-ring gear box, have over 650 hp, have a partial or complete tube-frame conversion, or do not retain the original floorpan and silhouette, you move to TTR regardless of how many points you have. In your example, the car goes from TTC to TTU. If your vehicle has a base class of TTA or TTU, it can move to TTR by having more than 35 and 14 mod points, respectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerjon1 Posted January 14, 2006 Author Share Posted January 14, 2006 The data aquisition will be an AiM Sports, so I think I am getting bounced on both counts.. so 112 points. (before I make a tire selection) The car does start as a TTC car.. 03 Lancer Evolution VIII (non MR/RS) it will retain the original floorpan and silhouette, though it will have an APR Evil-R Widebody kit, and a roll cage but not what I think could be considered partial tube frame. The rear strut tower brace is incorporated into the cage, and two bars through the firewall, but both those are mentioned later in the rules and I have added the appropriate points. The rest of the roll cage is closer to an SCCA Production style cage. Then you get to the 650 HP example, is that at the wheels? If so then we should be safe but if its flywheel HP then it will be TTR anyway. (unless you trust us to detune it for NASA Events) Thanks for the response, I am looking forward to the NASA events and the chance for a Time Trial National Championship. Jon K http://www.racerjon.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted January 14, 2006 National Staff Share Posted January 14, 2006 The data aquisition will be an AiM Sports, so I think I am getting bounced on both counts.. so 112 points. (before I make a tire selection) The car does start as a TTC car.. 03 Lancer Evolution VIII (non MR/RS) it will retain the original floorpan and silhouette, though it will have an APR Evil-R Widebody kit, and a roll cage but not what I think could be considered partial tube frame. The rear strut tower brace is incorporated into the cage, and two bars through the firewall, but both those are mentioned later in the rules and I have added the appropriate points. The rest of the roll cage is closer to an SCCA Production style cage. Then you get to the 650 HP example, is that at the wheels? If so then we should be safe but if its flywheel HP then it will be TTR anyway. (unless you trust us to detune it for NASA Events) Thanks for the response, I am looking forward to the NASA events and the chance for a Time Trial National Championship. Jon K http://www.racerjon.com I agree with you, looks like you get bounced to TTR by the Data Acq, and by the over 650 hp (flywheel). It's going to be really interesting to see what ends up showing up in TTR at Nationals. Sounds like your car is a WCGT level car. Sounds like you are going to be based out of NASA Southeast, correct? This is there first year with a full season TT program. You will be a welcome addition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerjon1 Posted January 14, 2006 Author Share Posted January 14, 2006 I am out of the Southeast, but the car/team I will be driving for is Automotosports, which is based out of Chicago. (http://www.amsperformance.com) The drag car is on the cover of Modified Magazine this month. Because of the location of the team, I will probably be doing time trial events in the midwest. The car is a bit more than SWC GT I would think.. 2.3 liter engine, GT35r, 557whp, but for events such as One Lap of America its being kept street legal. (Of course the AMS drag car is street legal and streetable and it has 808whp and runs 9.41 and 156mph in the 1/4th.. so I guess we have a ways to go before those boys consider something "not street") I guess it will be fun driving a TTR car to the track. Jon K http://www.racerjon.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shawn M. Posted January 14, 2006 Members Share Posted January 14, 2006 The car is a bit more than SWC GT I would think.. 2.3 liter engine, GT35r, 557whp, but for events such as One Lap of America its being kept street legal. Im glad your not running in the Mid-Price Sedan class! See you in May! (im in a Black STI) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted January 14, 2006 National Staff Share Posted January 14, 2006 Im glad your not running in the Mid-Price Sedan class! See you in May! (im in a Black STI) Jon, you'll recognize him because it will be the slowest STi you've ever seen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerjon1 Posted January 14, 2006 Author Share Posted January 14, 2006 As far as I know, we will be in mid priced sedan. Luke has an STi thats going to be 450whp or so, and very well sorted, and there is another fast STi going. As far as "slow" STi's you never know what will happen. Last year a stock STi finished 3rd overall and 1st in Mid priced sedan in the second event at Roebling Road, and in 2003 I finished 5 events on top in mid priced sedan, 4 of them in the top 10 overall in a bone stock Evo. So I never count anyone out. It does look like it will be us against the STi's though this year. Jon K http://www.racerjon.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAC Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 The car is a bit more than SWC GT I would think.. 2.3 liter engine, GT35r, 557whp, but for events such as One Lap of America its being kept street legal. Im glad your not running in the Mid-Price Sedan class! See you in May! (im in a Black STI) You're driving an STI, Shawn?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shawn M. Posted January 14, 2006 Members Share Posted January 14, 2006 Im glad your not running in the Mid-Price Sedan class! See you in May! (im in a Black STI) You're driving an STI, Shawn?????? Were now talking about the 1 Lap of America race. We ran it in 2004. 3rd in class, 13th overall. Stock STI (was new actually) with some suspension work. This year its totally different but not with 450hp. We might see 340hp. Sponsors failed us, go figure. So seems that we are again at a disadvantage? Cool! Makes it more fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerjon1 Posted January 16, 2006 Author Share Posted January 16, 2006 Now they are looking at a dog box pretty seriously.. so I think its going to be safe to say this will be a TTR car for sure. Now I have to go shopping for slicks. Jon K http://www.racerjon.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerjon1 Posted January 16, 2006 Author Share Posted January 16, 2006 Another question... TTR doesn't allow Formula Cars of course, but what about sports racers, might we see someone show up with a vintage Porsche 962 to play? (Even a Radical on slicks pretty much takes away any shot of a sedan based car winning as long as the driver is decent.) Jon K http://www.racerjon.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shawn M. Posted January 16, 2006 Members Share Posted January 16, 2006 Another question... TTR doesn't allow Formula Cars of course, but what about sports racers, might we see someone show up with a vintage Porsche 962 to play? (Even a Radical on slicks pretty much takes away any shot of a sedan based car winning as long as the driver is decent.) Jon K http://www.racerjon.com Thats what I was telling Greg. (Radical comment) if you put fenders on the formula car, it can run from how I understand but alas, im just a wee little participant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerjon1 Posted January 16, 2006 Author Share Posted January 16, 2006 yea.. that would pretty much kill most of the sedans then.. the fastest car in the SCCA is a Formula Atlantic with a rotary engine and some, err.. bodywork to make it a Sports Racer.. Then you have the potential for Vintage, and not-so-vintage LMP, GTP, cars, Radicals, etc to come out.. I guess the question becomes, are the formula cars not allowed because of the unfair advantage they see, or because of percieved safety issues with full bodies and open wheel cars on course. If its the former, than the sports racers also would violate the "spirit" of the rule. If its the latter, then TTR will be a sports racer class. Jon K http://www.racerjon.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted January 17, 2006 National Staff Share Posted January 17, 2006 Jon, Unfortunately, at this point in the program, we have to draw the lines somewhere. We haven't seen a Radical, or really many cars that would even fit into the TTR class up to this point. We've had a few 750hp Porsches and 600+ hp Vipers come out occasionally, but none of them have been regulars. I know you are new to NASA TT, so you may not know that last year, we only had TTU. TTR is new because we knew that our "regular" TTU guys with 500 hp Evo's and Mustangs, and Cobra Replicas, or even relatively stock pre-'06 Z06's would get killed by the few supercars that we did have coming out. So, we drew some lines in the sand, and basically a car like yours (or any WCGT class car) ends up in TTR. It just wouldn't be fair to have a TTC* car with less than 60 points of mods that is a street car, run against a car of WCGT caliber. Sports racers like the Radical are legal in TTR. So far, none have come out with NASA TT. Now that there is a National Finals, it's possible they will join us. But, until there is some evidence that there would be enough of these guys to justify another class, we won't add one. It's also possible that your car could surprise them anyway (maybe not an SR8 with a guy that knows how to drive at all, but I'm sure you could do battle with a ProSport 1100 and maybe a 1300). If this whole program takes off Nationally like I hope, then perhaps we could add a sports racer class next year, but for now, let's see how this new TTR class goes. If we find that as we come towards Nationals that we have a slew of sports racers qualified for Nats (5 events), and enough non-sports racers in TTR, we can talk about it (especially if it appears that the sports racers that are qualified do, in fact, have a significant lap time advantage over the other TTR cars). Unlike some other orgs., we really do our best to make things as fair as possible for as many as possible, without discrimination. Also, we are right here, as you can see, willing to listen and communicate directly with our competitors. We will endeavor to keep this philosophy as the program grows. Thanks for your support. This should be a great year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerjon1 Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 I was following a bit last year, we almost went to the event at Road America in April, but the car had to be in drag trim the next week so we were not able to swap engine and turbo back and forth. So I did know that there had only been TTU. In fact, I commend you on a class a level higher, sort of a true "run what you brung" class, with the TTU and others being more of a structured setup. I think that as it stands that it will become a sports race class, but I also hope that enough cars show up for a sports racer/formula car TT class. As far as surprising them, I think we can of course, depending on driver ability and all, and taking a sedan to a win over a Radical or something would be up there in terms of bragging rights. Some of our issue is we are going to do what we are going to do to the car, and wherever we fall when we go play with it so be it: Unlimited in a Super Street time attack, TTR in NASA, SU if we put it wheel to wheel.. etc. I am just very happy right now for a National Championship time trial program to have a place to play with the car and show off what it can do. And.. another question.. when you say 5 events does that mean 5 weekends, or 5 days? Jon K http://www.racerjon.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted January 17, 2006 National Staff Share Posted January 17, 2006 5 days. Each day is a separate event that receives points (and often medals or awards). So, basically, it's 3 weekends with one day to fudge if a car has a mechanical issue, or the driver has a problem, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerjon1 Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 Cool, that makes things a bit easier with One Lap of America and a couple of the big one-off events with magazine coverage. Jon K http://www.racerjon.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shawn M. Posted January 17, 2006 Members Share Posted January 17, 2006 Cool, that makes things a bit easier with One Lap of America and a couple of the big one-off events with magazine coverage. Jon K http://www.racerjon.com Lucky you. Im going to miss 2 event days while im on the 1 lap event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerjon1 Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 Thats what I am saying, if it was 5 weekends, we would be in trouble because of One Lap of America testing and the event, but because it is 5 days, it opens up more chances to meet nationals requirements. Which makes me think of another question... Do all 5 days have to be in one area, or can we mix them? For instance, we want to run Hyperfest, but the bulk of the events we have a chance to go to will probably be In/Ohio events. Coming from a background with a national championship that requires you to run most of qualifying events in a home area, I am gun shy on this one. Jon K http://www.seat-time.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted January 17, 2006 National Staff Share Posted January 17, 2006 Thats what I am saying, if it was 5 weekends, we would be in trouble because of One Lap of America testing and the event, but because it is 5 days, it opens up more chances to meet nationals requirements. Which makes me think of another question... Do all 5 days have to be in one area, or can we mix them? For instance, we want to run Hyperfest, but the bulk of the events we have a chance to go to will probably be In/Ohio events. Coming from a background with a national championship that requires you to run most of qualifying events in a home area, I am gun shy on this one. Jon K http://www.seat-time.com We never specified, except that it has to be in the same class that you will run in at Nationals. Hyperfest may not have a TT event. I'm working with the MidAtlantic Region on this. But, I wouldn't count on that specific event for TT Nationals qualifying at this time. All other NASA regions will have TT events at just about all of their events (i.e.--not in NorCal at the few HPDE-only events). So, to answer your question, I think it will be ok to spread out your qualifying events among different regions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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