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ST5 Mod Factor Questions


sportwagen

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Hi all! I'm going to be joining HPDE this year and working my way towards Time Trials. I will be working on mods on my car this spring and winter. It's a 2018 VW Golf Sportwagen 1.8tsi 4motion. Depending on tunes and turbo upgrades I can either run TT5 or TT4. While the rules are quite clear for TT4 the mod factors for TT5 are a little confusing for me. I have a few questions, wondering if someone can help me figure this out?


SUSPENSION

Suspension design utilizing upper “A-arm” or “wishbone” type control arms (front or rear) -0.7

1. My car has Macpherson type front suspension and Mulitlink rear. I'm assuming this does not apply to me?

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Non-OEM shocks/struts with an external reservoir (or piggyback) OR with shaft diameter 40mm or greater -0.7

2. I will be upgrading my shocks and struts to Bilstein B8. I have 50mm strut knuckle up front so I'm assuming I have to take this mod factor?

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Replace, modify, or remove control arms, camber arms/links, toe arms/links -0.5

Add, replace, or modify a Watts link, Panhard Rod, or Torque Arm -0.5

Non-OEM metallic and/or spherical design replacement suspension bushing modifications on control/camber/toe arms/links, panhard rods, watts links, and torque arms (includes replaced, modified, adjustable, or altered control arm ball joints) -0.2

3. I will be changing out rear sway bar and at that time also the end links to Moog. I will also be changing the front strut mounts to something either with a fixed or adjustable camber (not sure yet). Do any of these upgrades fall into the rules above? I don't see a specific mention, but the rules are sort of unclear for me.

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TRANSMISSION

OEM street-legal model available paddle shift/DCT/SMG or sequential motorcycle gearbox -0.3

4. I have a DSG transmission that does have paddle shifters OEM. I see on ST4 it specifically mentions DSG transmission but here it doesn't, so it's unclear to me if this is the intention of this is to apply a mod factor for any car with paddle shifters?

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Thanks in advance! PS I'll be in the Great Lakes Division.
-Ian

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On 12/16/2020 at 1:13 PM, sportwagen said:

Hi all! I'm going to be joining HPDE this year and working my way towards Time Trials. I will be working on mods on my car this spring and winter. It's a 2018 VW Golf Sportwagen 1.8tsi 4motion. Depending on tunes and turbo upgrades I can either run TT5 or TT4. While the rules are quite clear for TT4 the mod factors for TT5 are a little confusing for me. I have a few questions, wondering if someone can help me figure this out?


SUSPENSION

Suspension design utilizing upper “A-arm” or “wishbone” type control arms (front or rear) -0.7

1. My car has Macpherson type front suspension and Mulitlink rear. I'm assuming this does not apply to me?

---

Non-OEM shocks/struts with an external reservoir (or piggyback) OR with shaft diameter 40mm or greater -0.7

2. I will be upgrading my shocks and struts to Bilstein B8. I have 50mm strut knuckle up front so I'm assuming I have to take this mod factor?

---

Replace, modify, or remove control arms, camber arms/links, toe arms/links -0.5

Add, replace, or modify a Watts link, Panhard Rod, or Torque Arm -0.5

Non-OEM metallic and/or spherical design replacement suspension bushing modifications on control/camber/toe arms/links, panhard rods, watts links, and torque arms (includes replaced, modified, adjustable, or altered control arm ball joints) -0.2

3. I will be changing out rear sway bar and at that time also the end links to Moog. I will also be changing the front strut mounts to something either with a fixed or adjustable camber (not sure yet). Do any of these upgrades fall into the rules above? I don't see a specific mention, but the rules are sort of unclear for me.

---

 

TRANSMISSION

OEM street-legal model available paddle shift/DCT/SMG or sequential motorcycle gearbox -0.3

4. I have a DSG transmission that does have paddle shifters OEM. I see on ST4 it specifically mentions DSG transmission but here it doesn't, so it's unclear to me if this is the intention of this is to apply a mod factor for any car with paddle shifters?

---


Thanks in advance! PS I'll be in the Great Lakes Division.
-Ian

DCT = DCT, PDK, DSG, etc.

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Tansar_Motorsports

1.  Correct.  you do not need to take this mod factor

2.  40mm max is specifically for the shaft diameter.  99% of aftermarket shocks pass this requirement.  No need to take this mod factor.  Note, Bilstein B8 will not be a competitive shock for this class.

3.  Sway bar, sway bar end links, and shock upper and lower mounting is free.  spherical metal bearings are fine in these locations.

4.  a DSG is a DCT.  its just what VW calls it.  PDK is also a DCT.

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Thank you both for the replies! I really appreciate it.

@Tansar_Motorsports Do you think H&R Street Performance coilovers would be a better choice? I'm already lowered on Eibach springs so was just wanting to upgrade shocks and struts for now as I have a lot of things to buy to get my car decently track ready. I have to run through HPDE first anyways, so competition is pretty far off, but I don't want to spend money twice either if possible!

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Tansar_Motorsports

Unfortunately, competitive shocks / springs are also miserable shocks/springs for street driving.

Most competitive cars are on MCS, JRZ, Penske, or Moton double adjustable coilovers (All very expensive).
Most competitive TT cars are also dedicated track cars, but not all.

You need to be honest with yourself about how competitive you realistically want to be.  Personally, I don't think that a sportwagon has much of a chance to be truly competitive, regardless of how much money you spend on it, but I might be wrong.  There are a couple of competitive GTI's in the country.

If you just want to have fun, and compete, but realistically not win, then don't worry about going super high end.  Go for a single adjustable coilover with a linear rate spring (as opposed to a progressive rate spring).

If you want to win, research what cars do well in ST5/TT5, and buy one of those.  Gut it, and put a roll bar in it (half cage behind the front seats).  That way, it can still sortof be driven on the street (to and from events), although it will be miserable. (It is dangerous to drive in a full roll cage car without a helmet on, due to your head contacting the cage in a crash).

Popular competitive TT5 cars include:  NC Miata, ND Miata, BRZ/FRS/gt86, Mazda RX8, bmw 330i (e46), bmw 328/325i (E36), Integra, civic (old and new), S2000.

 

For now, just stick with what you've got and do some HPDE.

All of this discussion only matters if you turn out to be a good enough driver, and develop a risk tolerance high enough to consistently push at 99% (putting yourself and your car at increased risk of crashing on any given lap)

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