Driver training FWD vs. RWD

[vitoal18t]

I am trying to think in a long run. I am aiming to step through HPDE 1-4, TT and eventually get my competition license.

 

Recently I made several posts asking about Mazda Miata and other very affordable RWD cars (E30 325is, RX7, 944...).

 

Is it a bad idea to learn driving in a FWD car, such as Ford Focus. I understand that most race cars are RWD and that RWD has many advantages over FWD, that's why race cars are RWD.

 

I already have a Focus, which I enjoy driving a lot. With the appearance of Spec Focus my faith trippled in that car.

 

I've been stressing out about finding Miata or other cheap RWD for HPDE. Is it such a bad idea to learn driving skills in a FWD? Will it be difficult to learn drive a RWD after I spent a season or two driving nothing but FWD.

 

I just heard lots of Myth about not learning in RWD cars, so I am just checking.

[Ev]

They are very different I can say that!!! There is a learning curve when going from FWD to RWD and visa versa. I think it's more of an issue when going from RWD to FWD. The reason I say that is in a RWD if the rear gets loose, you let off the throttle and it will come back in line (if it's not too late). If you do that in an FWD, you will spin INSTANTLLY!

 

I have driven both at speed and prefer RWD. I will say however, that if you like the Focus, go for it. There are more FWD cars on the market these days, so most of the cars racing in HPDE or amature racing today are FWD. True, the faster cars are RWD, but with all the Hondas and Acuras running around, it’s hard to ignore.

[GAC]

In the latest Primedia Time Attack at Buttonwillow, the fastest car was a FWD Cobalt SS. It was heavily prepped by GM, but was still FWD. Other time attacks have shown that FWD in a production, unibody-based racecar isn't such a bad thing after all. FWD, RWD, AWD...all can be made fun to drive with the right setup.

[Kolia]

What year your Focus? The early 3 doors is a pretty good FWD car, with good dynamics.

 

There are definitively some things to be learned from driving a FWD car on the track. Sure, not everything will apply to a RWD car should you later decide to do the switch. Yet it’s certainly not time wasted.

 

Lines will be different, with deeper turn-ins, swinging of the rear end and letting the front end pull you out of the turn. It’ll be fun and less trouble for now (not needing to find another car).

[vitoal18t]

So FWD and RWD do have quite different line, but as long as learning in a FWD is not a COMPLETE WASTE of time (maybe 15 years from now I'll want to race RWD 911..hehe) I see no reason why I should start over, buy another car, bring it up to speed with the maintanance, put track worthy suspension, wheels, tires.

 

My Focus is not a rocket, but with some minor suspension, wheels and Kumho ECSTA 711 tires on 17" Rotas it is a lot quicker than my 2003 Jetta Wolfsburg on a set of Kumho SPT.

 

Thank you all for a good advise. I guess I'll settle on my FWD Focus.

[FocusTed]

So FWD and RWD do have quite different line, but as long as learning in a FWD is not a COMPLETE WASTE of time (maybe 15 years from now I'll want to race RWD 911..hehe) I see no reason why I should start over, buy another car, bring it up to speed with the maintanance, put track worthy suspension, wheels, tires.

 

My Focus is not a rocket, but with some minor suspension, wheels and Kumho ECSTA 711 tires on 17" Rotas it is a lot quicker than my 2003 Jetta Wolfsburg on a set of Kumho SPT.

 

Thank you all for a good advise. I guess I'll settle on my FWD Focus.

 

If you're going to any events in Southern California. Look me up. I can help you with your Focus or if you have any questions with running a Focus go ahead an email me at [email protected] .

 

[Eric J.]

So FWD and RWD do have quite different line, but as long as learning in a FWD is not a COMPLETE WASTE of time (maybe 15 years from now I'll want to race RWD 911..hehe) I see no reason why I should start over, buy another car, bring it up to speed with the maintanance, put track worthy suspension, wheels, tires.

 

It's not a waste of time at all, especially since there are a LOT of fast FWD cars out there.

 

The basic vehicle dynamics are the same between FWD and RWD (and AWD) as far as managing weight transfer, etc., etc. The technique differences and line differences are not dramatic, but, at least IMHO, more subtle. Most professional beginning schools teach the same basic technique for FWD and RWD. And, IMHO, by the time you get FWD down you'll be good enough to tell the difference automatically and compensate accordingly.

 

And FWD just kicks butt in the rain.

[BoxedFox]

The reason I say that is in a RWD if the rear gets loose, you let off the throttle and it will come back in line (if it's not too late). If you do that in an FWD, you will spin INSTANTLLY!

 

Not necessarily. You can set up a front drive car to eliminate lift throttle oversteer fairly easily. Certain cars are set up like that from the factory (ex: Acura TSX).

 

You're right in saying that the on-the-limit behavior is very different though. For example, if you get into that kind of a situation in a front driver, the best solution is usually to give it more throttle and force the rear into line. Somewhat bizzare if you've spent your life playing racing games and driving rear drive cars all your life.

[kinkyllama]

You're right in saying that the on-the-limit behavior is very different though. For example, if you get into that kind of a situation in a front driver, the best solution is usually to give it more throttle and force the rear into line. Somewhat bizzare if you've spent your life playing racing games and driving rear drive cars all your life.

I've had the back end out pretty badly in my FWD car and I just floor it and it usually comes around. I've also been behind a focus and his back end broke very loose and he gave it gas and it dragged the back end back in line.

[Eric J.]

Basic technique for correcting oversteer (in general) is to add throttle, and that's the same for FWD or RWD. The effect of the weight transfer is the same in both.

 

Naturally one manages the traction circle for the driving wheels a bit differently than for the non-driven wheels, and that's where the differences appear. I still think a beginning driver should just focus on basic technique, though, which is the same for both FWD and RWD.

 

The book list in the FAQ, or the Physics of Racing series are pretty good resources that I highly recommend for beginners.

[loudes13]

I've done both, driving is driving to me.

[Axebreaker]

The difference isn't that big on a road course, at least as far as line goes. Depending on the corner, it could be a matter of inches. The difference is in inputs, mostly. As far as correcting oversteer and understeer, drivetrain matters less than other factors. I think it's really the weight distro, and the setup that matters. Obvoisly there are some differences, because an fwd will under unless you do something screwy, like a big lift or left foot braking while on the gas. In fact I would never recomend the former, and the latter does the opposite in a RWD car, so is rarely used.