ekim952522000 Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 (edited) Are you allowed to do HPDE's if you only have one seat? Edited May 10, 2006 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jim P. Posted May 10, 2006 Members Share Posted May 10, 2006 (edited) No, you need to install a seat and/or belts that are comparable to what the driver has. Many instructors will balk at a flimsy seat and belts if you have a full race setup, it just doesn't give them a good comfort level. You want your instructor concentrating on giving you driving tips and not just holding on for dear life Edited May 13, 2006 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuperdave Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 From everything I've read here, your passenger seat needs to be equal to the driver's setup. I also think it won't pass Tech inspection if the seats etc are not comparable. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxedFox Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 I have been allowed to run HPDEs with an aftermarket driver's side seat (Sparco Sprint) and a factory passenger side seat. In fact, the tech guys didn't even mention it until I asked them. However, it should be noted that I'm still using the factory 3 point seat belts on both seats. My understanding is that an instructor won't get in your car if you have a harness on just the driver's side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ek_brandon Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 the ONLY time you need a passenger seat is when you are in HPDE1 or 2 when you are required/want an instructor in the car. after HPDE1, i never had the passenger seat in my car.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted May 11, 2006 National Staff Share Posted May 11, 2006 From everything I've read here, your passenger seat needs to be equal to the driver's setup. I also think it won't pass Tech inspection if the seats etc are not comparable. Good luck This is probably one of the most often incorrectly interpretted rule in the CCR's. 11.4.8 Seatbelts and Harnesses ...Passenger seatbelts must meet the same minimum requirements as the driver seatbelts if being used by a passenger.... 11.4.12 Seats ...Passenger seats must meet the same requirements as the driver seat, if used by passengers.... It doesn't say anywhere in these rules that the driver and passenger seats or harnessess need to be the same. It says that if a passenger is getting in the car, that whatever kind of seatbelt/harness/seat you have in the passenger location must also meet the minimum requirements. For seatbelts/harnesses, the minimum is: The seatbelts should be in good condition. No damage may be present on the seatbelts and they must be the factory configuration. For seats, the requirement is: All seats must be securely fastened to the structure of the car such that they are strong enough to withstand a major impact. So, the CCR does allow a stock seat and seatbelts in the passenger location, even if the driver has a racing seat and 5-6 points. So, passing tech is not the issue. The issue is whether an instructor is going to look at your setup and tell you to find another instructor because he/she doesn't think that you are looking out for their safety as well. As for myself, if I'm instructing in a car that has no rollbar or cage, I would rather have a stock seat, seatbelts, and airbags, even if the driver has a better seat and a 4 or 5 pt harness. If the car has roll protection, then I want a seat that won't break backward, and a good 5 pt. harness. I've run my own car with a stock passenger seat for years, but the position of the roll cage main hoop crossbar makes it impossible for the seat to submarine backward. And, there are good 5 pt. harnesses that fit the seat perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesS Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 I've run my own car with a stock passenger seat for years, but the position of the roll cage main hoop crossbar makes it impossible for the seat to submarine backward. And, there are good 5 pt. harnesses that fit the seat perfectly. Even so, following the CCR you would still need a seat back brace? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted May 12, 2006 National Staff Share Posted May 12, 2006 Even so, following the CCR you would still need a seat back brace? Incorrect, the rule for HPDE says that "care should be taken to prevent the seat from submarining". It doesn't say that a backbrace is required: 11.4.12 Seats All seats must be securely fastened to the structure of the car such that they are strong enough to withstand a major impact. If replaced, the replacement seat should be installed according to the manufacturer’s instructions. If stock seats are to be used with a roll bar/cage, care should be taken to prevent the seat from submarining under the rollbar. Care should also be taken to prevent the occupant from hitting his/her head on the roll bar/cage. Passenger seats must meet the same requirements as the driver seat, if used by passengers. The rule for competition racing is different: 15.6.22 Seat Back Support A seatback support must be made to hold the seat from going back in the event of a crash. A plate should be used to distribute the load. No bolts, corners, or sharp objects should be placed is such a manner that could lead to a possible puncture of the driver in a high impact crash. Proper design and installation is crucial to safety and it is recommend that the driver employ the services of a professional race car builder for this, as well as all other vehicle safety items. An exception may be made for those seats homologated to, and mounted in accordance, with FIA 8855-1999 standards. Those seats that qualify for the aforementioned exception must conform to the entire FIA 8855-1999 set of regulations. This includes a mandatory seat replacement of any seat more than five (5) years old. Please reference the FIA regulations. http://www.fia.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesS Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 Incorrect, the rule for HPDE says that "care should be taken to prevent the seat from submarining". It doesn't say that a backbrace is required: Passenger seats must meet the same requirements as the driver seat, if used by passengers.[/i] Thanks for the clarification. I would think a reclining seat would need to be positioned right up against the diagonal of the main hoop on roll bar in order to meet the "care" part of the rule. May I ask how you incorporated the sub belt into your pass seat? Does it just wrap around the front of the seat? I guess my real question is: when this belt is buckled in, does it need to engage (or be fairly close to engaging) the crotch area of the passenger? Also, if the driver seat is a FIA fixed back and the pass seat is stock/reclining, then this pass seat needs to meet the requirement of a fixed back? The rule is not saying that it needs to BE a fixed back, just perform like one (i.e. seat brace or rollbar diagonal). I think I answered my own question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted May 12, 2006 National Staff Share Posted May 12, 2006 Yep, I think you've got it now. For my sub strap, I just have it come over the front of the seat. The padding is pretty soft there and compresses nicely to bring the harness into a safe position. My seat back on the passenger seat is almost touching the cross bar on the main hoop (not the diagonal). The seat back cannot move backward more than an inch in a crash (if it failed) because of the cross bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Rusu Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 I am trying to figure out if my seat can be used even if it is older than 5 years as long as it has the seatback support. It is Carbon/Kevlar MOMO seat that is FIA approved but older than 5 years. 3 of those were in storage in my house. Also it does not say in the rules book that the support has to be bolted to the seat. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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