GAC Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Lots of them out there, GPS and non GPS. Anyone have opinions on which one is best under $1,000? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayBayBay Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Nothing comes close to the micropod lite from RLC racing. It is gps and works really well, super accurate times, I am very pleased with the system. I think it was like 950, but to my surprise it has a lot of memory on the unit (they told me I could save a years worth of race data without erasing). I would look at it compared to everything else before you make a decision. Here is a link: www.rlcracing.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meat Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I am a fan of the Traqmate system. It's very easy to set up and use and it has great software. www.traqmate.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I am a fan of the Traqmate system. It's very easy to set up and use and it has great software. http://www.traqmate.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Me too. It's easy to setup and compare multiple drivers or multiple runs, and the precision is pretty impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayBayBay Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I agree the Traqmate is reliable and easy; however, it is lacking technology and is basically unreadable on the track. Too pricey compared to others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meat Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I agree the Traqmate is reliable and easy; however, it is lacking technology and is basically unreadable on the track. Too pricey compared to others. Not really, I think $699 is a good price for a system that is entirely self contained and gives you a wealth of easily-analyzed information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayBayBay Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Sorry I mean unreadable, I am saying I can't read the screen. Question: For $699 does that include a GPS for the system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meat Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Sorry I mean unreadable, I am saying I can't read the screen. Question: For $699 does that include a GPS for the system? Yes, that is a main component towards how the system works. It uses GPS and accelerometers to record data, and the great part is that it only takes a few minutes to install in a car. That means that you can easily transport the system to another car and get more data that you can use for head to head comparisons. Also, other user's data files are available to download off of Traqmate's site, allowing you to compare your performance with that of many others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayBayBay Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Sounds like we have the same abilities, but I have a color touch screen with shift lights!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Sounds like we have the same abilities, but I have a color touch screen with shift lights!!! What's the precision of the GPS? I've heard Traqmate is around 1 meter, and the data I've seen backs that up... it's precise enough to see and analyze different lines. I was originally a nay-sayer because I didn't believe GPS could be that precise and repeatable (since most consumer GPS stuff isn't), but Traqmate and others really impressed me. If you can match that level of precision, you have something there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayBayBay Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I am proud to say that my GPS system is accurate within inches. This is why the system has the ability to do exact track maps and know exactly where the outer and inner edges of the track are in comparison to your exact lap line. Also, I should mention only one lap is necessary to see your line of the that lap (it is not an average it is exact). Hope this helps clear up why I am so happy with what I am using, I'm not 100% sure if there are any other system that have similar capabilities, but if there are please post! Here is a link to my photobucket to see my track map of lap 3 two weekends ago at Buttonwillow. http://s670.photobucket.com/albums/vv61/jasoncammisa/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornswoggler Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Unless you have a major problem with your driving line, the GPS accuracy isn't a big deal. It is more than good enough to see two drivers taking a different approach to the corner, and that is probably the closest you will benefit from GPS accuracy. The big benefits from the GPS, imo, is being able to get in-car laptimes without a trackside beacon, and having a track map for the analysis so you have a reference for where you are on course relative to the graphs and charts. It's great to have the data, but the real benefit is when you can convert that data into information. You don't need a GPS doohickie to say you missed an apex. I would be interested to hear a couple of real-world examples how super-accurate GPS made the difference in an analysis. When I look at the data, I prioritize a couple of other things before zooming into the GPS map. Here is my list: - MPH vs distance, I compare this against a reference data file. It could be a previous baseline, a different car, or a different driver. The baseline may be consistently slower or faster than I am, but if I am just waaaayy off the pace for a certain corner, the MPH difference will be bigger than expected. I then look at that same corner lateral g's vs distance. - g's over distance. I look at both lateral g's over distance and longitudinal g's over distance. Lateral g's tells me if I am getting the most out of my tires for a given turn, and long g's can be very helpful with braking zones. If I am braking too early, my long g's will show either coasting or wussy braking. Lateral g's can help with fast sweepers and kinks, making sure I am not slowing down too much for the bend! - Compare my theoretical best lap vs fastest lap. This can point out areas I can be more consistent. TBL can demonstrate both car and driver was able to survive at those speeds... so why not do that every lap?? If I can quantify what sets my TBL apart from other quick laps, I can focus on those opportunities. - If trying a few different things on a new corner combo, I create a segment and identify which was my fastest run through there. I'll then zoom in on that faster approach and see which driving line I took (i.e. did I sacrifice the first corner in the combo, did I late/early apex, etc). I get plenty of driving line detail from the traqmate, even if I don't have track map overlay. I'm sure with a little photoshop this could be done. The data usually tells me the momentum line is fastest. I have yet to benefit from GPS super-accuracy when leveraging data acq in the quest for going faster. Not saying it isn't a benefit, I just don't think it holds back my analysis. YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayBayBay Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Well we all have our own system of analysis that we benefit from. Truthfully its all about getting faster and using data acquisition to help us. Thanks for your comments; however, every measurement you mention my software can compare I just posted a picture of the track map by itself. I promise all systems will change to this technology sooner than later and GPS will be more helpful than anyone ever thought. Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZipZap Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 I am proud to say that my GPS system is accurate within inches. Unless you're talking about 10's of inches, I am skeptical. My best commercial receiver, given a clear sky and sitting still, would take several minutes of averaging to get it down under a meter. Accuracies when moving are a couple of meters at best. Inches would be something I might expect out of a differential setup, but even then it would be very impressive. How are you measuring accuracy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayBayBay Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Unless you're talking about 10's of inches, I am skeptical. My best commercial receiver, given a clear sky and sitting still, would take several minutes of averaging to get it down under a meter. Accuracies when moving are a couple of meters at best. Inches would be something I might expect out of a differential setup, but even then it would be very impressive. Well it is a differential setup, when you boot up the unit it takes about 30 seconds for the satellites to pick up. Depending on your location depends on how many satellites you pick up, but normally I pick up 8. That helps with the accuracy in addition to what model of GPS you have from RLC. Honestly, the 5Hz standard GPS that comes with the unit is more than enough for most club racers. When I take my warm up lap around the track and look at my files later I can see my self going side to side or if I run off I can see that as well. Maybe 10's of inches is more fair to say; however, I can promise you it can't be more than a foot or two off at the most. The reason I know this is because when you go back to the pc software later you can see your exact track lines within the conforms of the track and after only one lap. There is no average or general line, each line is different and you can compares lines to each other. I have seen no other manufacture doing this; hence the reason I went with rlc, not to mention the sweet color graphic touch screen that is sunlight readable. It really is a cool package for the money. Also, I have never had a track transponder time more than 100th of a second off and it is normally 1000s of a second off, believe it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Using Traqmate, a guy I know drove the very outer edge of the track for a lap, then the inner edge for another lap... The result was an accurate depiction of the width and edges of the track, and we could then overlay any other lap to see a great picture of the actual line. Seemed plenty accurate and precise to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayBayBay Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Using Traqmate, a guy I know drove the very outer edge of the track for a lap, then the inner edge for another lap... The result was an accurate depiction of the width and edges of the track, and we could then overlay any other lap to see a great picture of the actual line. Seemed plenty accurate and precise to me. You should send a pic of it, I would like to compare it to what I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZipZap Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Well it is a differential setup... Where is the second antenna? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayBayBay Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Well it is a differential setup... Where is the second antenna? Differential is the type of satellite connection, it is suppose to be a high grade connection. This is what allows such accurate measurement of the cars line. As for the second antenna, I assume you are talking about the GPS unit itself. It is very small looks like a hockey puck, but the diameter is no bigger than a racket ball. The GPS is magnetic so I run it through the door jam and place it on the passenger fender. It works really well; however, at first I was worried at high speed if it would fall off. Now I know that is no worry. Overall great setup and easy to install. Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZipZap Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Well it is a differential setup... Where is the second antenna? Differential is the type of satellite connection, it is suppose to be a high grade connection. This is what allows such accurate measurement of the cars line. As for the second antenna, I assume you are talking about the GPS unit itself. It is very small looks like a hockey puck, but the diameter is no bigger than a racket ball. The GPS is magnetic so I run it through the door jam and place it on the passenger fender. It works really well; however, at first I was worried at high speed if it would fall off. Now I know that is no worry. Overall great setup and easy to install. Jay I have looked at the setup on the website and am fairly impressed. I don't want to get into a total GPS tutorial here, but "differential" GPS is a system that uses both the target antenna and another antenna at a known fixed location that basically generates an offset. I don't know of any current automobile applications of DGPS. The only way I can see getting the kind of repeated accuracy they show on the site using only the L1 frequency is through an incredibly fast processor and filter, or somehow they've figured out how to do the carrier phase trick very quickly. I wonder if one of their engineers would be willing to entertain a geek call... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayBayBay Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 I have looked at the setup on the website and am fairly impressed. I don't want to get into a total GPS tutorial here, but "differential" GPS is a system that uses both the target antenna and another antenna at a known fixed location that basically generates an offset. I don't know of any current automobile applications of DGPS. The only way I can see getting the kind of repeated accuracy they show on the site using only the L1 frequency is through an incredibly fast processor and filter, or somehow they've figured out how to do the carrier phase trick very quickly. I wonder if one of their engineers would be willing to entertain a geek call... Well, the ones that you would want to talk to are Garmin. They build the GPS that RLC uses; I am no expert but let me tell you this stuff works really well. Never thought about researching it more; however, if you do let me know what you find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollar Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Hello All, any updates on this? In the RLC website, under the track commander section and under the GPS tab, the 5hz GPS unit doesn't seem to be capable of accepting the video inputs, the 10 and the 20hz one seem to be. Is that correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayBayBay Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Hello All, any updates on this? In the RLC website, under the track commander section and under the GPS tab, the 5hz GPS unit doesn't seem to be capable of accepting the video inputs, the 10 and the 20hz one seem to be. Is that correct? Actually all GPS units accept video inputs and has nothing to really do with the GPS unit. I have a 5Hz and it works so well with my chase cam, I just used it last weekend at nationals for spec. miata at Buttonwillow. The 5Hz really works well, no real need for the upgraded GPS in my opinion. JB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZipZap Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 I traded e-mails with RLC and they seem very eager to answer questions and help. There is a serial input on the dash unit for video. What video inputs are you talking about on the GPS unit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollar Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Actually all GPS units accept video inputs and has nothing to really do with the GPS unit. I have a 5Hz and it works so well with my chase cam, I just used it last weekend at nationals for spec. miata at Buttonwillow. The 5Hz really works well, no real need for the upgraded GPS in my opinion. JB ok, good to know, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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