mc-integra111 Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 (edited) I have now been told by multiple people that my front down tubes from the halo to the floor following the A-pillar are NOT legal for use in NASA. The reason they give is because the front tubes have 2 bends in them to get around the dash panel (see photo below). I read the CCR about the halo cage option (see section quote) and thought this would be legal. I am asking if anyone has experieince with this kind of down tubes. Maybe know of cars that have this and run with NASA or know of cars that have been turned away. Thanks for any input as this may be a showstopper if I want to run with NASA. 15.6.9 Halo Hoop (Option 2) "One (1) down tube following the “A” pillar must support the “halo” on each side of the car. The down tubes shall incorporate no more than two (2) bends each." Edited July 19, 2006 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_2kgt Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 The way the CCR reads, no that is not legal. It isn't a show stopper, just cut it out and rebend a bar w/ 1 bend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trackboss Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 To do a cage properly in that area the stock dash has to either be replaced with a custom dash or removed and trimmed to fit back around the cage. Even if that were legal if you ever have to take out the dahs it won't happen easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tims Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 not only not "legal" not very safe. that bar would bend easily in a rollover situation(rollcage is designed to protect you during a rollover normally). best way to build this section of the cage is with the dash removed. get the cage down tubes as far forward as possible and install the firewall/wheel well reinforcement also. then trim the dash so the dash can be instaled. usually takes cutting a slot into the original dash. this will give the driver more room and make the car easier to enter and exit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peerless Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 15.6.9 Halo Hoop (Option 2)"One (1) down tube following the “A” pillar must support the “halo” on each side of the car. The down tubes shall incorporate no more than two (2) bends each." Maybe its just me because I am a newbie to all this but the above stated rule clearly allows 2 bends in each down tube. Now while I would agree its probably not the best set-up, it does sound legal according to whats stated above. No? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tims Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 there looks to be three bends in each of the down tubes. it would be clearer in person, or with several different pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc-integra111 Posted July 18, 2006 Author Share Posted July 18, 2006 Sorry, I will try and get a better picture up. In person there is obviously only 2 bends in each downtube. At the halo bar, the down tube connects at about a 45 degree angle (give or take, like most cages). The difference between mine and a standard single bend downpipe is at the bottom. My downtube is at about a 30 degree angle with the vertical while a normal single bend would come directly vertical. The fact that my down tubes do indeed have only 2 bends is why I think this is legal. I cannot argue that my cage is stronger than the single bend down tube cages, because it isn't. But there are always stronger cages, so just because mine isn't the strongest shouldn't make it illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWL Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Jared- Unfortunately, that cage will not pass tech as is. While two bends are allowed, these bends are set up for a pretty serious failure as the bends have substantially weakened that part of the structure. Even if you don't race with us, please get that fixed as it's dangerous as is and you could get seriously hurt running that cage if you put the car on it's lid and the a-pillars collapse. Cutting holes in the dash and putting in some proper down tubes are a small price when you consider the consequences. Thanks. -JWL John Lindsey Chief Divisional Director Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc-integra111 Posted July 19, 2006 Author Share Posted July 19, 2006 There we go, I think that is a better picture in the original post now. The only thing you can't see is the connection to the halo bar, but the straight line of the down tube goes up a little farther and is then welded to the halo bar. I think this is a clear view of the 2 bends and where it is welded to the plate at the body. So far I've heard this cage isn't legal and isn't safe. I definitely appreciate any input, but why is this cage illegal? I don't understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FocusTed Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 I saw the same design of someone who was going to run in SF. He had this designed and once we told him it wasn't safe, he then changed the whole cage. I think the main reason it wouldn't pass NASA standards is because it's not safe. I'm not an expert in this area, but I think the rule that allows two bends means two bends in the same direction... not a zig-zag bend. Old cage new Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tims Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 please read Mr. JWL's signature and all arguments are settled. thanks John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc-integra111 Posted July 24, 2006 Author Share Posted July 24, 2006 Thanks for everyone's input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWL Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Jared- I don't mean to be too mystic here, but often things in the CCR have some interpretation left to the inspector. In this case, you indeed have only two bends, but the bends are set up in a way that dramatically weakens the front part of the cage and could lead to disaster. Take a piece of wire and play with the bends a bit and you may see what I mean as to the crush strength of different designs. Again, I really hope you don't take this as us being harsh as our only motivation is to help save your bacon wherever you end up running the car. Thanks. -JWL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpanther Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Take a piece of wire and play with the bends a bit and you may see what I mean as to the crush strength of different designs. Oddly enough.... When we designed our last cage, I went to the hobby store and bought a bunch of 1/8" diameter copper tubing. You can cut, bend it and solder it into a small model of what the final cage design will look like. Twisting it and pushing on the corners will show where bracing really helps or where it's not doing snot. It really helped explain *why* some of the rules are the way they are. I never tried, but I suppose you could then drop something heavy on it and see where it fails... (yes, as a child I blew up plastic models with firecrackers ) Of course, this is never a substitute for having an experienced shop design the cage and fab it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy's Cages Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 often things in the CCR have some interpretation left to the inspector. Exactly! Technically, the downbars would be legal when combined with a Halo bar, but no Tech Inspector in their right mind would sign off on it. That kind of bend became popular on street cages. Throw a couple of door bars in there and all of the "advantage" of that design (ease of entrance w/o going through the dash) goes completely away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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