movin on up...HPDE3

[sr20goofus]

Hello all,

 

my name is casey, ive been a member of Nasa for over 2 years now and i have been doing HPDE's as finances permit along with modifications to my car for reliability and some power upgrades.

 

number of events and locations:

 

2 - Beaverun

3 - Summit Point Main

2 - VIR Full

1 - VIR Grand

1 - Mid Ohio

 

i will be doing my 10 event at Summit Point Main mid October, and ive been thinking and talkign to all my instructors about moving up to HPDE3. My car is usually faster than the others out there, but that doesnt always mean a move up, the last 2 HPDE's i have done i was signed off solo at the end of the first day. Both instructors suggested doing one more HPDE in 2 beore moving up, so i am doing that, but i was also curious to see how many eents others have doen before moving on to 3, and how consistant they are on track to prove to themselves and instructors they are ready. Spill the beans everyone, im looking for advice.....

[subachad]

I think not only do you need to be able to keep up, but you need to be aware of others on the track. The greatest thing about HPDE3 is when you are coming up on someone... then know and will allow a safe pass. If someone is coming up on you, it's expected you'll do the same. I probably have about 10 or so HPDE's before going to 3. Car troubles got in the way of me moving up a few times.

[white_2kgt]

Event Count != HPDE Level.

 

If you are able to check off each and every line item in your passport for Group1 and 2 and do them all consistantly, and NOT think about it as you are doing it then I suggest you inform your instructor at Summit Pt in october of this prior to your first session on track. Tell him your goals, tell him YOU think YOU are ready and ask him to evaluate you on that based on those facts. Then have him evaluate you based on the HPDE3 stills while still in HPDE2. If you can preform some of the HPDE3 skills in HPDE2 and not get in over your head then you are probably ready to move up. Also, PLEASE make sure you are upto speed in HPDE2, even if you can clip every apex, heel/toe each downshift to perfection, match those revs, brake deep, if you are 20mph slower than everyone else, you won't have ANY fun in HPDE3 and those around you won't either. (I don't know you so don't take this personal, just relaying my experience). There have been so many people that have gone out in HPDE3 only to be a moving road block to the rest of us. In HPDE3 your situational awareness needs to increase at a rapid rate. Where in 1/2 you have 2-3 places to pass, you are no longer limited in 3, so if someone catches you in turn 2 they had better be past you by turn 3 or you are gonig to upset them .

 

Good luck and I hope to see you on grid in October .

[sr20goofus]

i had planned on telling my instructor what i was hoping to do either way, but having him use the group 3 exercises and chacklist is a great idea. Last event i had all 1's and 2's, andi was moving substantially faster than than most of 2 with some running issues (only able to use 4.5k-6.5 rpm at about 60% throttle without car running liek crap), so i knwo at full throttle i would hve been even quicker.

 

my overall awareness is much better than it was way back when, constently checking my mirrors for faster cars (mostly vetts and a few EVO's so far), im ready for point bys every strait if i have to give them or recieve them. I feel liek im ready, but in October group 2 ill have my instructor treat me as a G3 driver with his grading and such.

 

Thank you for the input, even more is welcome......

[99HOSS]

Speaking from the right hand seat (Instructor position), make sure of three things - smoothness, consistency and awareness. Speed doesn't matter if these can't be met.

 

Talking about your goals with your instructor should be something that is always discussed, before each session even(at least with my students), so be sure to try and find your instructor early enough to go over your thoughts and aspirations.

[nasaregistrar]

Event Count != HPDE Level.

 

If you are able to check off each and every line item in your passport for Group1 and 2 and do them all consistantly, and NOT think about it as you are doing it then I suggest you inform your instructor at Summit Pt in october of this prior to your first session on track. Tell him your goals, tell him YOU think YOU are ready and ask him to evaluate you on that based on those facts. Then have him evaluate you based on the HPDE3 stills while still in HPDE2. If you can preform some of the HPDE3 skills in HPDE2 and not get in over your head then you are probably ready to move up. Also, PLEASE make sure you are upto speed in HPDE2, even if you can clip every apex, heel/toe each downshift to perfection, match those revs, brake deep, if you are 20mph slower than everyone else, you won't have ANY fun in HPDE3 and those around you won't either. (I don't know you so don't take this personal, just relaying my experience). There have been so many people that have gone out in HPDE3 only to be a moving road block to the rest of us. In HPDE3 your situational awareness needs to increase at a rapid rate. Where in 1/2 you have 2-3 places to pass, you are no longer limited in 3, so if someone catches you in turn 2 they had better be past you by turn 3 or you are gonig to upset them .

 

Good luck and I hope to see you on grid in October .

Excellent advice given by Chad here...Generally you want 2 or better on all skills in the passport. Getting passed in the corners(with a point) of course is different than the straights. I always suggest taking an Instructor for as many weekends as is possible, there is always something you can learn. See you in Oct.

[sr20goofus]

consistency awareness and smoothness are what i really work on now for the most parts, and putting myself into more awkward situations in preparation for G3, like taking late point bys so i have to go into a corner offline in preparation or being in both positions. my mirrors are my best friends on track also, i dont think i even look at my g/f that much throughout a weekend .

 

I will see all at the track in October, hopefully being evaluated for G3, look for this car...

 

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[Frank Corkran]

...even if you can clip every apex, heel/toe each downshift to perfection, match those revs, brake deep, if you are 20mph slower than everyone else, you won't have ANY fun in HPDE3 and those around you won't either. (I don't know you so don't take this personal, just relaying my experience). There have been so many people that have gone out in HPDE3 only to be a moving road block to the rest of us. In HPDE3 your situational awareness needs to increase at a rapid rate. Where in 1/2 you have 2-3 places to pass, you are no longer limited in 3, so if someone catches you in turn 2 they had better be past you by turn 3 or you are gonig to upset them .

 

I agree with everything you said Chad, except the part about speed that's quoted above. As long as you've got the situational awareness, confidence in driving offline and driving/traffic skills down, your "speed" isn't important. Those who aren't having fun because they can't drive the perfect line and turn the fastest time every lap because of traffic have stopped learning and should probably look into running SOLO1/hillclimbs where there is no traffic. Running fast and well in tight traffic is loads more fun than just clicking off lap after lap. Stock Miatas on street tires and fully race prepped M3s/Vettes/etc. all have fun together in HPDE3/4 as long as everyone stays sharp and drives well.

 

Chad, I know you must have meant something besides what I read. Or are you saying you were having a terrible time racing in the Thunder Group?

[kbrew8991]

you've gotta be good at watching behind you more often

 

and you've gotta be able to do that without dropping anything you're already juggling.

 

DE3 and passing in the corners is fun, but its a HUGE jump up in awareness required.

[white_2kgt]

I agree with everything you said Chad, except the part about speed that's quoted above. As long as you've got the situational awareness, confidence in driving offline and driving/traffic skills down, your "speed" isn't important. Those who aren't having fun because they can't drive the perfect line and turn the fastest time every lap because of traffic have stopped learning and should probably look into running SOLO1/hillclimbs where there is no traffic. Running fast and well in tight traffic is loads more fun than just clicking off lap after lap. Stock Miatas on street tires and fully race prepped M3s/Vettes/etc. all have fun together in HPDE3/4 as long as everyone stays sharp and drives well.

 

Chad, I know you must have meant something besides what I read. Or are you saying you were having a terrible time racing in the Thunder Group?

 

Thunder was fun the whole 3 days I got to race w/ those guys until I got 'put out'. But anyway...I still feel that someone needs to be 'up to speed' in whatever car they are driving for Grp3. I'm not saying someone in a miata should never be in Grp3 b/c they are not as fast a a WC vette/viper but if they are only going 1/2 as fast as a Spec Miata's then they don't belong in HPDE3. This is because somewhere along the line they missed _something_, there's a reason they are slow and they will NEVER pickup speed in HPDE3 with one hand out the window all the time. Does that make more sense?

[Frank Corkran]

Thunder was fun the whole 3 days I got to race w/ those guys until I got 'put out'. But anyway...I still feel that someone needs to be 'up to speed' in whatever car they are driving for Grp3. I'm not saying someone in a miata should never be in Grp3 b/c they are not as fast a a WC vette/viper but if they are only going 1/2 as fast as a Spec Miata's then they don't belong in HPDE3. This is because somewhere along the line they missed _something_, there's a reason they are slow and they will NEVER pickup speed in HPDE3 with one hand out the window all the time. Does that make more sense?

 

Yeah, figured that's what you really meant. It's not the actual speed, but the ability to drive at full speed as a background task to the main job of awareness and tactical/strategic thinking in traffic. The traffic/aggression level in HPDE3 will only get in the way of mastering the first part. Getting really good at the second part will only come after moving out of HPDE2. Like every skill, it must be honed through practice in a challenging environment, not just casual repetition.

 

The best advice has already been given. Listen to the advice of your instructors and don't give a second thought to the number of events/group you're runnng in. Everyone comes at this a little differently and a few simply move up too soon - for them. They usually aren't too hard to pick out, either.