nkwright Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 Wow, what a pain. Who ever said that coilovers are too expensive for the series didn't pay a shop to upgrade the stockers to 30MM. As many of you likely know, it's an extremely labor intensive job (10-12 hours). Let's say you got a deal at your shop and paid only $75.00 per hr. You're looking at about $900.00. Add the $266.00 for 30mm solid or $369.00 for 30mm hollow from Paragon, you're over $1,200.00 for the conversion and the only adjustability you have is the shock. On the other hand, you can put your car on jacks, drill a couple of holes, cut off the caps, and pull out the bars. Remove the old shocks, bolt on the new Koni coilovers (with all the stuff you need incl the spring rate you want) for $1275.00. There are other options that cost less. You can now buy a couple sets of springs and really play with the setup for different types of tracks and your particular preferences. I know what the rules are and I'm not trying to shake up things by any means. I instead want to see if this is a topic that can be addressed for the future. We already have coilovers in the front and a non stock item (30mm torsion bars) is allowed in the rear. So why can't we have the option of coilovers in the rear? With coilovers springs can be changes easily and inexpensively, ride height can be adjusted with a tape measure, and the car can be adapted to different tracks and driving styles. After all, isn't a spec series about driver AND setup? Again, we've already done the t-bar conversion. I just think coilovers are more effective cost wise as well as performance wise than t-bars. It may be attractive to guys considering coming in as well. After all, most "race cars" have coilovers. What do you guys think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ Coupe Jason Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 well to be honest you can do your T bars in the garage - so you have no labor cost its just a pain in the ass! .. I dont disagree me and my tech today had to adjust my tbars at a tune of 4 hours and I am finaly happy with them!! I would have loved to see Rear coil overs.. but Labor cost was not a big fact in set up - most installs can be done at home not at a shop.. aside from the engine! I can tell you as much as it makes since, you will never see rear coil-overs in 944-spec.. so to take this topic any further is a waste. sorry!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Comeau Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 Neal, does the Mitchell Labor Guide quote that much time? The ironic thing is that Rick White turns smokin' fast lap times at Willow on stock 23.5mm torsion bars. DEAD STOCK! NO LABOR. I may try that route some time in the future because I need lots more grip in the rear. My car came with 30mm's and I feel it's too stiff for the weight back there. How many sets of rear coil over springs would we have to buy for adjustability? $$ per set? How much labor would it be to change rear springs in between races? I kinda like the idea of sticking your choice of torsion bars in there and then leaving them alone. Tune the rear sway bar and rear shocks if you feel the need. I don't believe it's any cheaper to run rear coil overs, but I do believe it's simpler to run your choice of torsion bars. BTW, How's the white car coming along now? Stripped, suspension, cage, paint? I'm still offering that cool digital windshield banner background with the blue fade. Also, I still have that CD of Fontana with David's name on it! Lemme know. TC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkwright Posted February 21, 2004 Author Share Posted February 21, 2004 Tim, You make good points about having sway bar and shock adjustments. As far as a "guide" for time, I'm not sure. Although I'm pretty sure the guide doesn't quote the time it takes to burn that 20 year old rubber bushing crap off to replace the stuff with a new cheap effective polyeurethene ones. A set of springs is available for 120.00. You could have three sets. Willow, BTN Willow, CA for example. If you were close on your estimated rates you're done. If you were off then you can still make the sway bar and shock adjustment. Now you have real control in the rear just as you do in the front. As far as changing them, its a matter of measuring your ride height, getting the car up, unscrewing two bolts, removing a collar, drop the spring, insert new spring and reverse order. About 20-25 minutes you would be able to see if it was "too stiff back there" As far as Rick White comparisons go: First, he is the best driver of these car's I've ever raced with, second, I think he may have other available otions for speed in his class to make his car "out of spec" for us, but perfectly for R9 or whatever the class. That comparison may have some holes in it. Again, I appreciate the responses and that's all I was looking for. As far as the car, the torsion bars are in!!! We're on schedule. See ya at the track! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-Spec#94 Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 I have change torsion bars in my garage. Once with 28 mm bars and a second time with 30 mm bars. Not very hard really. Just took some time. I wrote and excel program to calcualte the change in spring rate to get the proper ride height with and change. This avalible on my website and I am two for two. Both times I used I got the bars right. Minor spring plate adjustment was all that was required. Cost was $250 for the bars 30mm solid and and labor. I can do it in my garage in a weekend now. 30mm bars also effectivly limit the spring rates on the car. With coilover rears you start in to expensive shocks and before you know it cars are running the 1000 lbs springs and $5000 shocks. 30 mm bars equate to about 335 lbs springs. This means stock koni yellows work fine. So shocks are cheaper. Front spring rates then are typically 250 to 400 lbs depending on personal preference. I know Rick white stays with 23.3 mm t-bars and typically uses 400 lbs front springs. Personally from running 350 lbs springs and 28 mm bars I cannot figure how that set-up does not understeer like geo metro on bicycle tires. Anyway if it works for him fine. BTW... All you guys still keep saying Rick White is so great because of some good times at Willow. When we ran willow we did it in the heat of the summer. This weekend and last weekend at PIR I could feel the hp differnce between morning and afternoon. Rick's best at PIR was 1:14 something. The spec cars this last weekend were running 13's. In spec trim, I ran a 1:13.69 in Sat qualfying. Tyler and I ran 1:13.822 and 13.944 in the Sat race. Sunday Qualfying I ran a 1:13.32 and Tyler a 1:13.7. (Race times were slower since we ran deep tread tires for expected rain that never came.) Hell the weekend before I ran a 1:12.915 in my spec car on toyo's with my balast removed (figure 2570 lbs). Chas ran a 1:12.8 on Kumho's. So I am certain we can attain a Rick white time at Willow. It is just mater of being there with right weather conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Comeau Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 Joe, you forgot the part about Rick's times at Willow and PIR where the car weighed 2868lbs! Yikes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-Spec#94 Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 So... His car is different from our cars. In fact his car does not exist and more as some idiot on the road plowed in to the new owner. What are Rick's times in a spec car? You guys keep saying he is greatest. Well I'll believe it when I see it done. More so in spec car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Comeau Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 I never said he's the greatest............I"M the greatest! But seriously, I think his white 924S was a GP class car and was heavier than our cars. I would sure like to run against him this year, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.