Brake Rotors....Powerslot, EBC or OEM?

[vitoal18t]

I want to try slotted rotors with Hawk HP Plus race pads?

 

Should I even bother with Powerslot rotors or just get fresh plain OEM rotors (288mmx25mm) for my VW Jetta?

 

I took the car to Infineon and Thunderhill for HPDE. I have to say that at Thunderhill I really cook my brakes going into 10, 14 and 1.

 

I have fresh Valvoline SynPower fluid and it doesn't seem to boil, but the pads fade.

I am pretty sure there is very little I can do to my brakes besides switching to larger rotors 312mm (Audi TT rotors), after all it's a heavy 3280lb car with me in it. 288mm rotors are kinda on the small side. I wonder if slots will help?

 

Just out of curiosity I wanted to try Hawk HP Plus pads with some sort of slotted rotors, like powerslots. What do you think? Any suggestions for other OEM rotors, Brembos, ATE, EBC, or ECS tuning?

 

I have a feeling that once I'll improve the pads my fluid will overheat , but we'll see.

 

Please advice on the rotors and pads.

 

My other car was Ford Focus (2600lb car) w/ SVT 300mm brakes + Goodridge steel lines and Hawk HPS pads. Strong set-up, not a hint of fading.

 

-Vito

[nasaregistrar]

I want to try slotted rotors with Hawk HP Plus race pads?

 

Should I even bother with Powerslot rotors or just get fresh plain OEM rotors (288mmx25mm) for my VW Jetta?

 

I took the car to Infineon and Thunderhill for HPDE. I have to say that at Thunderhill I really cook my brakes going into 10, 14 and 1.

 

I have fresh Valvoline SynPower fluid and it doesn't seem to boil, but the pads fade.

I am pretty sure there is very little I can do to my brakes besides switching to larger rotors 312mm (Audi TT rotors), after all it's a heavy 3280lb car with me in it. 288mm rotors are kinda on the small side. I wonder if slots will help?

 

Just out of curiosity I wanted to try Hawk HP Plus pads with some sort of slotted rotors, like powerslots. What do you think? Any suggestions for other OEM rotors, Brembos, ATE, EBC, or ECS tuning?

 

I have a feeling that once I'll improve the pads my fluid will overheat , but we'll see.

 

Please advice on the rotors and pads.

 

My other car was Ford Focus (2600lb car) w/ SVT 300mm brakes + Goodridge steel lines and Hawk HPS pads. Strong set-up, not a hint of fading.

 

-Vito

Slotted rotors are slotted to remove pad glazing.

[vitoal18t]

Meaning that they take off glazed layer and keep pad friction to the max?

 

I also heard that pads under hight temperature will emit gases that will act as a lubricant between the rotor and the pad. Slots evacuate that gas.

 

So slotted rotors are better for track use?

 

Thanks!

[kbrew8991]

ditch the HP+ autocross pads and get some real track brake pads. I'd look at something higher than ~450* boiling point with fluid as well while you're upgraging...

 

slotted rotors are NOT going to solve your problem with pad fade. garunteed.

 

you know you're getting pad fade and you aren't considering an upgrade to more serious brake pads..??

[nasaregistrar]

Meaning that they take off glazed layer and keep pad friction to the max?

 

I also heard that pads under hight temperature will emit gases that will act as a lubricant between the rotor and the pad. Slots evacuate that gas.

 

So slotted rotors are better for track use?

 

Thanks!

The problem with outgassing is really no more...call Matt at Carbotech and discuss pad compounds for your car. He will be able to help you choose the correct compound for your application. Upgrade the fluid to something like ATE Blue or Motul.The last thing you want on the track is brake fade, that will put your and others safety in jeopardy.

[vitoal18t]

Well thank you very much for the info!

 

I had this feeling deep inside that pads are the answer and I guess some experienced people supported that feeling . So I won't waste money on slotted rotors and see it as a solution to my fading.

 

My main problem is that I am using cheap pads that I bought from Kragen, their performance isn't on the same level as OEM pads. OEM pads that came with the car were actually pretty decent, it took a hard run down the hill on a twisty mountain road to even notice a hint of fade.

 

I never faded the brakes to the point that I had 0% stopping power (not on a VW, I did on a Geo, so I know how that feels). In most cases I felt a sign of fading and had to push the pedal harder and adjust my driving and braking zones accordingly. I noticed that even at Thunderhill my brakes would cool before the next turn, so I always had stopping power, I wouldn't do it any other way. I can't afford to wreck a car! I am still in HPDE 2 so the pace is a lot slower then in HPDE 3 or 4.

 

My reasoning regarding Hawk HP Plus pads was that, if I am currently using pads which are worse then stock OEM pads that came with my VW and Hawk HP Plus pads are better then stock VW pads then I should have much better brakes.

 

I will give Matt a call at Carbotech.

 

Thank you!

-Vito

[vitoal18t]

Just talked to Matt and ordered a set of XP8 pads for my Jetta. Going to use OEM rotors 288mmx25 without slots or groves.

 

So far I can't find the information to back up the fact that slotted rotors like Powerslot will help me with the fading. I think they are for looks.

[Ultimate Altima]

Lighter weight 2-piece rotors will help, along with some ducting.

Edited September 29, 2006 by Guest

[Chino 240Z]

Couple more ideas that we picked up from others:

 

A friend of our's really likes Carbotech products. We prefer Porterfields. Listen to Carbotechs advice and besure you follow any break-in procedures from the manufacture to seat the pads.

 

Look into air duct cooling and see what others are doing to get air into the right places at the rotors. If you do put ducting hose mount it securely you don't need it falling off or getting it all wrapped up into your rotors, axles or what ever.

 

Upgrade your brake fluid as mentioned, we prefer Motul 600 Racing Brake Fluid. Bleed your brakes after each track day, or even at lunch break at the track to remove any air or gas bubbles that may have formed in the line and remove over heated fluid in the pistons. So don't forget to take an extra bottle of fluid, hose, sized wrench and catch can to the track.

 

Be careful if you install a brake pad that is ment for racing and drive to the track with them, they may need to warm up to proper operating temps. and may surprize you by not stopping as expected. For example the R4 carbon kevlar compounds may not stop like stock brakes when they are cold, could get nasty on the way to the track if you drive to the track.

 

If upgrading rotors, look into other options other than drilled or slotted rotors... many fail because they become weaker in extreme continued track use and crack or fail. Removing material from a solid rotor is not my way of fixing the problem. Other options- there may also be other larger brake components that will adapt to your application too. Example: For us the is a Toyota 4x4 4-piston caliper used with late Z model "vented" rotors that fit the early 70's Datsun 240Z that really make a difference and are affordable.

 

Something we found was that as you become more use to track speeds, and better car control you will gain better brake control and even find that you will actually use less braking and not over heat them, as a result improve lap times too.

 

Good Luck.

Craig

[vitoal18t]

Thanks everyone!

 

 

Went out on track today and yesterday at Infineon/Sears Raceway. I think I finally got my brakes under control.

 

I installed new Brembo solid rotors and Carbotech XP8, followed bed-in procedure and did a nice cool down drive before parking my car for the night.

 

Now my braking is limited by my street tires. I also put ATE SuperBlue fluid and pedal felt firm all day and I was able to heel and toe going much deeper into corners. Like 7 and 11 at Infineon. It felt real nice all day long. Those pads bite real hard once they warm up.

 

I was in HPDE 2, so I am sure I wasn't as hard on my brakes as more advanced groups. Pulling off the track, after 1 cool down lap, my rotors measured at 478 Degrees F using infrared pyrometer.

 

I think that during braking my teperatures climbs to 600 maybe 700 degrees max, which is well withing limits of those pads.

 

 

The bottom line, like everyone said Track Pads is a huge difference vs. street pads.

 

Also driving to and from the track it stopped fine, just squeeeeeled a bit . Very streetable pad.

 

I am sure as I start driving harder and faster I might need yet more brakes, but in the future bigger rotors, Motul RBF 600 and maybe yet more agressive pads.

[granracing]

The ATE / Super Blue fluid you're using will be just fine in the future too. Instead of going with bigger rotors, if need be, you can always duct some air to your front brake rotors. Then as you said, a more aggressive pad might be in order later down the road. If you ever have questions about braking issues / heat, ect., just give the guys at CarboTech a call for some of their advice. Awesome, awesome company, products and service!

[FBI AGENT]

I have to jump in and agree with you on Carbotech. They are a stand up company in my book. I had ordered some and they didn't arrive in time for my leaving for CMP. (overnight) I called them on the way to the track on Friday afternoon and they did another (at thier expense) overnght delivery of the pads on Sat to the track. They then sent me a return shipping label for the ones that were delivered (late) at my home. I will use CARBOTECH for all my braking needs

[RACER-X]

+ 1 on the Carbotech

[Gray Ghost]

I'm another Carbotech fan for use on my Corvette C5, and use the EBC Performance "Yellow Stuff" on my '93 Celica GT with great results. I use stock rotors in both cars - haven't seen a need for slotted rotors. I highly recommend using Super Blue ATE brake fluid and upgrade to Stainless Steel brake lines (Goodridge or Earls).