Engine Blocks

[IGZOSTD]

Greg , Im new to NASA, this being my first season and now moving on to TT. I got interested in Nasa about 5 yrs. ago and bought a race car from my dad . After having some engine troubles I chose to build a reliable bottom end so I went with an aftermarket block . I have built this car to run in TTC. I have spent 4 yrs. and a lot of cash to conform to TTC and now we have new rules concerning blocks . These engine blocks only build more power in the Blown , Turbo or NOs applacation.

Yes they are more reliable , this is why I went with this style block , and for the greater number of rebuilds this affords .

I also will be running a new car as a backup , but this is barely competitive for the class .

I understand that some of the rules need more clairifacation , as in the camber & castor plate issue and shocks . But this is a very large blow to me ,let alone my wallet . This would put my 66 Mustang in the TTA or TTU class , meaning a new shock and brake package , wider rims and tires , fender flairs , $$$$$$$$$ ,not to include bringing the 06 Mustang up to some sort of competitive level as a back up , $$$$$$$$ . and I just started .

[Gumball]

IGZOSTD,

 

I too drive a '66 Mustang and have asked Greg the same question regarding aftermarket blocks....... such as Dart. I agree that the main advantage is simply reliability, although that could be debated as the Dart block can be purchased with smaller mains, allowing higher rev's. Nevertheless, that would be addressed in other areas of the rules under balancing and blue printing. We'll just have to wait on his decision as I'm sure the new rules for 2007 will have MANY changes.

 

Let me know if you have any questions about classifying your old beast. I may be of help.

 

BTW.... Don't forget to take the +12 mod points for "Relocation of Suspension Mounting Points" if you have lowered your upper control arms. (i.e., the "Shelby Drop")

 

Regards,

 

John

[Greg G.]

Greg , Im new to NASA, this being my first season and now moving on to TT. I got interested in Nasa about 5 yrs. ago and bought a race car from my dad . After having some engine troubles I chose to build a reliable bottom end so I went with an aftermarket block . I have built this car to run in TTC. I have spent 4 yrs. and a lot of cash to conform to TTC and now we have new rules concerning blocks . These engine blocks only build more power in the Blown , Turbo or NOs applacation.

But this is a very large blow to me ,let alone my wallet . This would put my 66 Mustang in the TTA or TTU class , meaning a new shock and brake package , wider rims and tires , fender flairs , $$$$$$$$$ ,not to include bringing the 06 Mustang up to some sort of competitive level as a back up , $$$$$$$$ . and I just started .

 

I have a few comments for you. First, NASA TT is still in its fledgling stages (only 3 1/2 years old), and is going through a major transformation as it has grown from a "backyard, run watcha brung, maybe classes are equal" regional competition between 15 guys at a local track, to a National competition with approaching 600-1000 drivers, and making up 20% of the NASA Championships event. Changes in the rules are inevitable in these early stages! To expect the rules to stay the same for the first 3 years, and spend over 3 years building a car for a specific class is not a reasonable expectation. In fact, if you look at many major pro series, the rules change enough to force teams to build entirely new cars every 1-2 years. Now, I do expect (and hope) for stabilization of the rules, as it will make it much easier on our participants and officials. However, the rise in level of competition that has occurred over the past 1-2 years has shown us where the real and potential problem areas are with the rules.

 

Now, there are enough changes coming in the rules for '07 that there is no way to know if the car you are building will make it into TTC or not. There are some major issues that we will be dealing with in these changes. So, while you can spend 4 years building a car, all you can expect is that when it is finished, we will try and have rules that will class it as fairly as possible. There is no guarantee that it will be the fastest car possible in a given class, though. Final planning and preparation to optimize points vs mods needs to be done AFTER the release of the rules for the year you will be competing in. Now, with that being said, the "new rule" you are referring to is actually now one season old.

 

To get more specific, the rule (clarification) says that if you have a non-OEM block, it constitutes an engine swap, and that it needs to be evaluated by the Regional and National TT Director to determine a points assessment (if appropriate), depending on the situation. If the block is not made by the original manufacturer, with the original engine that is a large part of how we base class cars, how can we know (without looking/assessing/evaluating a particular case), that the substitute is an equal swap for the original? We can't--period. There are too many variables involved.

 

Now, with your case, if by us assessing your engine swap/build, your car would move up to the TTU (or TTA) class, then what makes you think that your car should be a TTC car anyway? That sounds pretty ridiculous to me. I'm not sure how you came up with that assessment, but it was probably inaccurate, based soley on a wt/power ratio that is clearly written is used only as a guideline by TT admin in re-classing an engine swap car. You may have noticed that the vintage Mustangs received a serious gift in base classing if you compare their wt/hp ratios with other newer cars in their base class.

[IGZOSTD]

Greg,

Thanks for the reply regarding aftermarket blocks . As I have read the rules on a regular basis , I don't recall the aftermarket blocks every being addressed in the rules untill recently . I guess this is just racing . I still have questions though . Does this require a dyno run and a trip to the scales . I was hoping to have the car ready for the 07 season , Thank God I have another Mustang to run untill then . My intencion was not to skurt the rules , just work within them . Also , what class would a stock 65 or 66 GT350 run in . I dont see them in the classifacations .

[Greg G.]

If I remember correctly, the quote from John Anderson (our vintage Mustang expert) was that, "Nobody would ever bring an authentic Shelby GT350 out to NASA TT". John uses an engine swap that we approved for a '69 351W into his '66 Mustang. A stock '65 is listed in TTF* (Mustang V8 '64-'68 <272hp---TTF*).

 

Depending on what block you have, and what mods you have, you may need to dyno and use actual weight and power numbers--in fact, likely with a non-OEM block.

[IGZOSTD]

Thanks Greg ,

Compression , cams , heads , intake , carb , hearders , you know, the the whole Bored and Hored thing .Do I get points taken away for No traction ?

Steve

[Gumball]

Steve,

 

In order to class the GT350 or "clone", you simply take a stock 65-66 mustang and start adding up the Shelby mods, i.e., 306 vs 271 h.p., headers, posi, suspension drop, adjustable shocks, f70-15 tires, etc.

 

Hope this helps.

 

John

 

P.S. One more thing, be sure to remind Greg that before 1972, HP rating was done using the BHP method vs. today's Net HP method. It is a huge difference. (around 20%)

[IGZOSTD]

Thanks for the reply John . I know that HP is rated different today , I would assume that this would be taken into account being that we have such a wide range of years that are in the rules , and adding more just about daily .

I had just wondered about the Shelby as I didn't see it listed . You know Greg , They still race the R Models in vintage and those guys take it pretty serious . I have seen some very high $ cars turned into priceless junk . I think our TT program is a lot safer than vintage . Just my thought .