Charles Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 I have a 06' Saab 9-2x(Subaru WRX wagon clone) and would like to figure out the best way to use a harness to hold myself in the seat better. My leather seats are bolstered slighty on the sides but this doesn't seem to be enough with the small amount of slack the OEM belts allow. I still find myself fighting to stay squarely in the seat. I've searched on this forum and the consesus seems to be using harnesses without a cage isn't safe. I assume a harness bar isn't any safer? Looking for my best option without being unsafe in the event of an on-track accident. Would a harness attached to a harness bar with OEM belts on be any safer? Thoughts on this? http://www.cg-lock.com/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barfly Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 The issue with the harness/harness bar is that if you roll over, your head will be one of the only things holding up the roof. At least with seatbelts and no bar/cage, you have somewhere to go when the roof comes down. Personally, I have a harness/harness bar installed while I am waiting for a cage to be installed. It keeps me in the seat and I would prefer not fighting to stay seated so that I can maintain control of the car. If you have no plans to install a cage, most will recommend staying with the stock seatbelts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmboy Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 A roll bar is the simplest installation if you plan to use a racing harness. Cost is less than the cage installation. Barfly is correct in saying a stock seat belt gives you a way to get out of the way of the roof should you roll. Nothing beats a racing harness but if you need to use the stock belts try this trick. Move the seat all the way back and tighten the belt ( give it a jerk to lock it in), then slide the seat forward while keeping tension on the belt. This will help remove all the slack the seat belt would have. Practice this and eventually you will learn how far back you can move the seat to get the tension correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted October 30, 2006 Author Share Posted October 30, 2006 Thanks, I've heard of the seat sliding trick but well........... I need the seat all the way back to drive since I'm 6'3" and all legs so if I scoot it forward at all it's uncomfortable. I've looked around at the autopower bolt-in rollbars online. They seem to be pretty affordable, no where near the protection of a welded in cage but not too bad either I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barfly Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Thanks, I've heard of the seat sliding trick but well........... I need the seat all the way back to drive since I'm 6'3" and all legs so if I scoot it forward at all it's uncomfortable. I've looked around at the autopower bolt-in rollbars online. They seem to be pretty affordable, no where near the protection of a welded in cage but not too bad either I guess. Yeah, I know what you mean. I'm 6'4" but that trick will still work if you manage to catch it just right. A bolt-in rollbar is better than nothing. If I had it to do over again, I would have gone with a rollbar over the harness bar as an interim solution anyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renntag Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 I wouldnt use harnesses with out a roll bar. many bolt in rollbars dont have provisions for the harnesses so a harness bar may be needed as well. FWIW, I would also suggest upgrading to comp seats. They will hold you in much better and are significantly lighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gairloch Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 I have a CG lock in my car. It's not a replacement for a harness but it does work really well for keeping your butt planted in the seat. You still end up fighting to keep your upper body in position but not nearly as much as without the lock. I really wish that the Schroth ASM (anti-submarine) 4-pt harnesses were legal. They are a great option for street cars without the hazards that a 5-pt harness without cage presents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric J. Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 I really wish that the Schroth ASM (anti-submarine) 4-pt harnesses were legal. They are a great option for street cars without the hazards that a 5-pt harness without cage presents. They are legal if the harness is installed in a car for which that model was intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-Spec#94 Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 I believe this entire roll over harness issue to be myth. While it is certainly safer to have roll bar with race seat and harness I would feel much safter with a race seat and properly supported harness and no roll bar. I think the idea that you can "move away" from crushed roof is a fallicy. In a nasty roll over a harness will hold you in the seat much better and this prevent you from flying around inside the car and hitting things. The reason 3pt belts are used in street cars is not to allow for the roll over, but because they are good compromise between safety and comfort. A harness is much safer, but also much less comfortable. What I would caution you on is finding stong harness bar is not always easy. I have seen many rather weak bars. The other issue is mounting and routing of the harness. Most stock seats do not allow for the proper routing of the harness belts. This can compromise their function which can make them less safe than 3 pt belts. So I am never concern about roll over protection, but I am always concerned about harness mouting and belt routing with respect to the seat. If you want some reference on the myth of harness in roll over read this. http://www.justracing.com/seminar_archives/viewtopic.php?t=5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbyevo Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 Myth or not, an Autopower bolt in rollbar is only marginally more expensive than a harness bar. I was in the same boat as the OP this summer when I moved into TT, and decided (with the help of my wife) that a rollbar and harness was the only proper solution. I lost the use of the back seats (as you would with a harness bar), but I feel much safer in the car now. I always subscribed to the cage/harness or stay stock theory, but the reality is that the stock belts are not going to help me at 130 mph should something go wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnMax Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 I believe this entire roll over harness issue to be myth. While it is certainly safer to have roll bar with race seat and harness I would feel much safter with a race seat and properly supported harness and no roll bar. I think the idea that you can "move away" from crushed roof is a fallicy. In a nasty roll over a harness will hold you in the seat much better and this prevent you from flying around inside the car and hitting things. The reason 3pt belts are used in street cars is not to allow for the roll over, but because they are good compromise between safety and comfort. A harness is much safer, but also much less comfortable. What I would caution you on is finding stong harness bar is not always easy. I have seen many rather weak bars. The other issue is mounting and routing of the harness. Most stock seats do not allow for the proper routing of the harness belts. This can compromise their function which can make them less safe than 3 pt belts. So I am never concern about roll over protection, but I am always concerned about harness mouting and belt routing with respect to the seat. If you want some reference on the myth of harness in roll over read this. http://www.justracing.com/seminar_archives/viewtopic.php?t=5 Agreed and nice reference article. I'm currently using the Schroth Quickfit in my STi and have had no issues with it as far as fit. Liked the pretensioner and air bag interface features. Primary use is track days. I'll soon be putting in a 4-pt Autopower race rollbar and wonder if I should keep the Quickfit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexaST-1 Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 Funny, I brought this up a few months ago and several post were made against the race seat and 5 point harness. You know where I stand on the harness situation, so I won't go down that road. See where to spend your cash thread. I still stand by my statements. Everyone has an arguement either for against anything. I bet if you make a post about bolt in roll cages you'll get arguments from both sides of the coin. Do what you need to do to be the best driver you can. I'll say it again...it is tough to drive the race track properly while fighting to stay on the driver side of the car. Hell if you could stay on the drivers side you may not roll over at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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