marty f Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 With the obvious huge effort that has gone into revamping the TT rules it's probably to much to hope that an oversight resulted in the removal of classing AI spec cars into TTA. With 9.5#/hp, spec tires, and solid rear axle, an AI car will never be competitive in TTS. Say it ain't so! - Marty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrtalon Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 With the obvious huge effort that has gone into revamping the TT rules it's probably to much to hope that an oversight resulted in the removal of classing AI spec cars into TTA. With 9.5#/hp, spec tires, and solid rear axle, an AI car will never be competitive in TTS. Say it ain't so! - Marty 9.5 is pretty close to the TTU cutoff, isn't it? It's better than my current ratio in TTS (11.2:1). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tornado Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 I would think TTA since last years best AI time was still 3 seconds off TTA record time and wouldn't even have finished in the top 3. I would like to believe us TT'ers are that good but my guess is if anything it is classed rough enough being inTTA to even finish in top 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat L. Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 I would think TTA since last years best AI time was still 3 seconds off TTA record time and wouldn't even have finished in the top 3. I would like to believe us TT'ers are that good but my guess is if anything it is classed rough enough being inTTA to even finish in top 5. I ran a 1:37 in Friday's AI qualifying (plus about 15hp which I found out about later ). The point is an AI car in qualifying trim can be extremely fast. One issue I saw with the automatic classification of the AI cars was that every AI car is prepared at a much different level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 One issue I saw with the automatic classification of the AI cars was that every AI car is prepared at a much different level. Can't that argument be made for all race classes? I would suggest auto-classing all race groups or none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCraven Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 One issue I saw with the automatic classification of the AI cars was that every AI car is prepared at a much different level. Can't that argument be made for all race classes? I would suggest auto-classing all race groups or none. NASA cancelled quite a few classes for 2007 and TT/PT is supposed to be the answer. The auto classing probably won't work anyways if one expects competitive racing, nobody knows how fast cars will get as they get developed fully under the rules. These rules are pretty open, much more open than any other rules I have seen so these cars should get suprisingly faster than most people expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadracetransam Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 With the new rules an AI car will never make it into TTA. Add up the typical AI car, not one that is all out, just the basics: TTD base class car running 275's 10 points Hoosiers 10 points 3100lb race weight 21 points Camshaft 6 points Polish stock head 6 Points ECU Chip 5 points Exaust 5 points Shocks 7 points Springs 2 points Swaybars 2 points Control arms 4 points Pandard bar 2 points Calipers 2 points Front Air Dam 2 points Spoiler 2 pointsTotal 86 points That moves you up 4 classes into TTS And that is the short list! Most AI guys run more than that. Mustang guys would get hit with even more points for tire size (13 vs 10) than GM's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 Considering AI is a 9.5/1 ratio and TTS is 8.7/1, It would make for a pretty uncompetitive TTS car or a pretty competitive TTA car. But also consider that AI is regulated with 9/1 on the torque side. A TTS car could be made to limit HP to 8.7/1 while going pretty nuts on torque. An AI legal car wouldn't stand a chance. Just my $0.02... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tornado Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 That's why it seems like the TTA classing works well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted December 12, 2006 National Staff Share Posted December 12, 2006 NASA elected to not map any race class rules to TT/PT except for the few special circumstance cars that cannot be classed by the rules (like Baby Grands, Mazda GT Spec cars, etc.). The top reason is that teching cars is difficult enough with just one set of rules, but just about impossible with multiple sets of rules. I'm sure there are guys who run in AI that don't even know every specific rule. How are the TT and PT directors supposed to learn them, and why should they? And, I'm not just talking about AI, I'm talking about 30 NASA classes, and some have even brought up mapping to IT or other classes. That is just a tech nightmare, that most regions could not handle, and I know would be almost impossible for me and our staff to deal with at the Championships. The second reason is that inevitably, someone (many someones) claim that there is some unfair advantage being given to X race class. Which in some cases (like the AI case discussed) would be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 Makes sense. Thanks for the clarification Greg! Keep up the good work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marty f Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 As I guessed - it was too much to hope that an oversight resulted in the removal of classing AI spec cars into TTA - and Greg has confirmed that this was the plan. So I'll be running (slowly) in TTS next year with the old "107". Good bye to TTA and hello to TTS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tornado Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 OK, what's up with the call with AI cars going to TTS. Can we say not a chance in hell of competing. Last year the AI winner would have finished 4th in TTA and now we are saying welcome to TTS. And a T1 prepped Z is at least 3 seconds quicker then that and who knows if that would even be the quickest car in TTS. Greg, that seems like a major short end of the stick. Don't you want some of us folks running both race groups and TT?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tornado Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Also FFR at M-O at the nationals were within .5 seconds. Certainly seems like they should both be classed in TTA doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrtalon Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Don't forget that many cars are moving up - people keep comparing this year's class placement vs cars in last year's class placement without taking into account that those winning cars from last year will likely move up a class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted December 13, 2006 National Staff Share Posted December 13, 2006 OK, what's up with the call with AI cars going to TTS. Can we say not a chance in hell of competing. Last year the AI winner would have finished 4th in TTA and now we are saying welcome to TTS. And a T1 prepped Z is at least 3 seconds quicker then that and who knows if that would even be the quickest car in TTS. Greg, that seems like a major short end of the stick. Don't you want some of us folks running both race groups and TT?? Chris, it's not my choice. It's a philosophical point about whether to let one or many "other" race classes map into this class. That doesn't happen anywhere else, does it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tornado Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Stop making sense and all Greg. I was just hoping to be able to run several things and be competitive. Looks like I should have kept the vette in hindsight now. No not really... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 OK, what's up with the call with AI cars going to TTS. Can we say not a chance in hell of competing. Last year the AI winner would have finished 4th in TTA and now we are saying welcome to TTS. And a T1 prepped Z is at least 3 seconds quicker then that and who knows if that would even be the quickest car in TTS. Greg, that seems like a major short end of the stick. Don't you want some of us folks running both race groups and TT?? Chris last years TTA ZO6s in 2nd and third at nationals are now classed into TTS as they were modded. A T1 ZO6 will be competitive as a direct transfer into TTS - but since it is not built to those rules a TTS prepped Z will beat it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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