roadracetransam Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Dear Greg, Good job on the rules, exept for the tire size issue. I understand that it would be near impossible for the officials to know all the tire sizes, and that the manifacturers do strange things in their OEM part selection. would it be possible to tie tire sizeing to competition weight? It would make a lots of sence since the tire size needed for brakeing, cornering is dirrectly related to the vehicle's weight. It would also be very easy to enforce, since upon inspection the officials weigh the car anyway. The competitors have to weight their car anyway when they class their car, so they can find out if they need to asses points for weight reduction, so they have no reason to complain. Furthermore it would affect everyone the same way, light cars, heavy cars, heavy cars that are now light cars ect... I know that you are trying to make this an even playing field, and sometimes it might even seem impossible given the wide variety of cars produced. There isn't another raceing series organization out there, pro or amature, that has such a wide range of cars that they have to write rules for. NASA is a true pioneer in attempting to do with TT and PT. I hope you would give this suggestion further thought, consult with other officials regarding if you feel appropiate. As for myself this issue would not be such a great deal, since I would only add 1 point, if I would have kept my stock tire size. Anyway it looks like I may be moving up a class or two without even touching my car in the off season. The points really add up fast this year, even though I have a stock engine, stock suspension, well almost, I did change springs and shocks. I guess when I upgraded the tires and got rid of a ton of weight I must have been on the right track. Maybe TTA won't be that bad. Second quick question: On the 8.7:1 weight to HP limit before you get bumped into TTS from TTA-F. It is the Adjusted Weight to HP ratio, Right? Third question: My manual automatic transmission, (plain ole auto with a manual valve body, like Dolan's) would that be assesed in the Adjusted Weight/HP deal like a paddle shifted/semi auto Ferrari supercar F1 tranny? Thank you for your 3AM responses, I hope this topic will reaches you before some people turn it into a 'SRT4 hate fest.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted December 13, 2006 National Staff Share Posted December 13, 2006 Dear Greg, Good job on the rules, exept for the tire size issue. I understand that it would be near impossible for the officials to know all the tire sizes, and that the manifacturers do strange things in their OEM part selection. would it be possible to tie tire sizeing to competition weight? It would make a lots of sence since the tire size needed for brakeing, cornering is dirrectly related to the vehicle's weight. It would also be very easy to enforce, since upon inspection the officials weigh the car anyway. The competitors have to weight their car anyway when they class their car, so they can find out if they need to asses points for weight reduction, so they have no reason to complain. Furthermore it would affect everyone the same way, light cars, heavy cars, heavy cars that are now light cars ect... I know that you are trying to make this an even playing field, and sometimes it might even seem impossible given the wide variety of cars produced. There isn't another raceing series organization out there, pro or amature, that has such a wide range of cars that they have to write rules for. NASA is a true pioneer in attempting to do with TT and PT. I hope you would give this suggestion further thought, consult with other officials regarding if you feel appropiate. As for myself this issue would not be such a great deal, since I would only add 1 point, if I would have kept my stock tire size. Anyway it looks like I may be moving up a class or two without even touching my car in the off season. The points really add up fast this year, even though I have a stock engine, stock suspension, well almost, I did change springs and shocks. I guess when I upgraded the tires and got rid of a ton of weight I must have been on the right track. Maybe TTA won't be that bad. Second quick question: On the 8.7:1 weight to HP limit before you get bumped into TTS from TTA-F. It is the Adjusted Weight to HP ratio, Right? Third question: My manual automatic transmission, (plain ole auto with a manual valve body, like Dolan's) would that be assesed in the Adjusted Weight/HP deal like a paddle shifted/semi auto Ferrari supercar F1 tranny? Thank you for your 3AM responses, I hope this topic will reaches you before some people turn it into a 'SRT4 hate fest.' If we changed the tire rules to match car weight, then we would need to base class all of the cars again, and get rid of the weight factor that lowered the heavy cars, and raised the lighter cars. Yes, the 8.7:1 for bumping to TTU (not TTS) is for an Adjusted wt/power ratio. Your manual valve body tranny is close, but I think not quite the same as a Tiptronic-type or semi-automatic (Ferrari type) tranny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadracetransam Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 what is the bump out of TTA to TTS? I reread the rules, so 8.7 or greater is TTS. and 8.7 or smaller will take you out of TTA-TTF into TTS, TTU, TTR. For Example: if you are at 8.6 you are out of TTB (base points, mod points had you at TTB for example) so you are in TTU because you went under 8.7. Well how would you end up in TTS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted December 13, 2006 National Staff Share Posted December 13, 2006 what is the bump out of TTA to TTS? I reread the rules, so 8.7 or greater is TTS. and 8.7 or smaller will take you out of TTA-TTF into TTS, TTU, TTR. For Example: if you are at 8.6 you are out of TTB (base points, mod points had you at TTB for example) so you are in TTU because you went under 8.7. Well how would you end up in TTS? The way to end up in TTS is by 1) either having a car that has a base class in SUR and staying within the "Adjusted" wt/power ratio, or 2) getting bumped out of TTA by having too many modification points. TTS is really like an "unlimited" TTA with similar wt/hp ratios, but unrestricted mods that will undoubtedly make these cars 3-4 seconds faster than TTA cars. The Adjusted wt/power ratio limit of 8.7 (which is really lower than an 8.7:1 power to weight ratio for many cars because they dont run over 275 size tires, etc.), is a safety factor to prevent a runaway car who's driver figured out a way to really game the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slink Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 greg, so would this be a class to look into if i put a supercharger on my s2000? i have 245 fronts, 275 rearss 2920 weight, 310rwhp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shawn M. Posted December 13, 2006 Members Share Posted December 13, 2006 greg, so would this be a class to look into if i put a supercharger on my s2000? i have 245 fronts, 275 rearss 2920 weight, 310rwhp Slink: You really need to send him an e-mail. [email protected] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrc24x Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Slink, Yup that combo would be nice for TTS. I should be around 290hp and 2950lb and have options to add up to 250 lbs of balast if I want to try slicks or add some more power.. Plenty of options to keep it interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted December 14, 2006 National Staff Share Posted December 14, 2006 greg, so would this be a class to look into if i put a supercharger on my s2000? i have 245 fronts, 275 rearss 2920 weight, 310rwhp Yes. By the time you add in tire, suspension, and aero mods, the car would bump out of TTA after getting reclassed for the supercharger. 2920/310 = 9.42 + 0.4 (275 tires) - 0.3 (2920 overall wt.) = 9.52 To max out the car closer to the 8.7:1 adjusted wt/power ratio, you could run Non-DOT slicks, increase the power level, or decrease the car's weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slink Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 thanks greg. i have wanted to add the comptech supercharger. i see this might be the class to run in for that. i see that there will be alot of fast cars there but over all they must all be with in the 8.7 weight to hp ratio so as long as i do not go under 8.7-1 weight hp i can do anything with out going in ttu? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Graber Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Slink, You can do almost anything and stay in TTS. Details are in the new rules. I'm in the same boat and will be running TTS as well. You think you can get 315's under that baby? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slink Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 245 fronts 275 rears. i tried 275 fronts & 295 rears but i rubbed and bent my fenders. i just think it will be cheaper to add a superchager and run in tts than try to by light weight body parts and use up my 14 points in tta. plus i think it tts is going to be packed this year. p.s. you have 315 on your black car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loudes13 Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 what about de-modding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shawn M. Posted December 15, 2006 Members Share Posted December 15, 2006 what about de-modding? What about it? If you undo mods that you would take points for, you dont take the points. That kind of de-modding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted December 15, 2006 National Staff Share Posted December 15, 2006 thanks greg. i have wanted to add the comptech supercharger. i see this might be the class to run in for that. i see that there will be alot of fast cars there but over all they must all be with in the 8.7 weight to hp ratio so as long as i do not go under 8.7-1 weight hp i can do anything with out going in ttu? It's not 8.7:1 straight up. Don't forget the Modification Factors listed in the rules. That's what I showed you in the calculation I did above. In your case (RWD, no fancy tranny stuff), your potential modification factors are tires and overall weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted December 15, 2006 National Staff Share Posted December 15, 2006 245 fronts 275 rears. i tried 275 fronts & 295 rears but i rubbed and bent my fenders. i just think it will be cheaper to add a superchager and run in tts than try to by light weight body parts and use up my 14 points in tta. plus i think it tts is going to be packed this year. p.s. you have 315 on your black car Slink, Graber's point is that with the 310 rwhp that you stated with the supercharger, you could run 345's on that thing and be legal for TTS still. Or, you could run full race slicks (10.5" or less). Time to start cutting those fenders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slink Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 i see a get +.4 points (275mm dot) and -.3 points but the guy at the dyno shop said that the s2000 he dyno on the mustang dyno was at 310 rwhp. BUT he said if you want dyno jet numders do this 310 x 1.1= 341rwhp. (2985 weight i forgot to add the weight of the supercharger) 2985/341=8.75-1 +.4=9.15 -.3 =8.85-1 this on the safe side. or 2985/310==9.62-1 +.4=10.02 -.3=9.72-1. as you can see i would be on the edge with the dynojet readings. it is one thing at a local event but at the nationals i do not want to be adding weight or have to change something becuase of my dyno readings and or scale weights were off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Graber Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Slink, Don't forget to weight it with all 4 wheels on this time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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