Matt9960 Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Hi folks, I've been going through these forums and had a couple of questions that I'm unable to find answers for... What metric is used to differentiate between a "Street Car" and a "Race Car" in respects to how they are Tech Inspected? Is it simply "If it's street legal its a street car, if not it isn't" ? I would hope it is not as cut and dry/black and white as that... We plan on running a (other than suspension, weight reduction, bracing and brake upgrades) mostly stock 240SX this upcoming year to get us started in HPDE, and upgrading eventually to a full TTR car, given a few years At which point are we unable to classify this car as a streetable car? For instance, the car will be fully gutted, with composite replacements for many body panels, and possibly a full (NASA spec) cage... but still run a basically stock engine/drivetrain (Improve the driver before improving the power) Thank you for your insight and I eagerly await your responses! Thanks! -Matt G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianZ Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Hi folks, I've been going through these forums and had a couple of questions that I'm unable to find answers for... What metric is used to differentiate between a "Street Car" and a "Race Car" in respects to how they are Tech Inspected? Is it simply "If it's street legal its a street car, if not it isn't" ? I would hope it is not as cut and dry/black and white as that... We plan on running a (other than suspension, weight reduction, bracing and brake upgrades) mostly stock 240SX this upcoming year to get us started in HPDE, and upgrading eventually to a full TTR car, given a few years At which point are we unable to classify this car as a streetable car? For instance, the car will be fully gutted, with composite replacements for many body panels, and possibly a full (NASA spec) cage... but still run a basically stock engine/drivetrain (Improve the driver before improving the power) Thank you for your insight and I eagerly await your responses! Thanks! -Matt G. As soon as you start to modify the car from stock (i.e. gutting car, seat) you neet to comlpy with the "race" rules.. (i.e. cage, seat back brace, etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt9960 Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 Oh, I see, well then. What exactly CAN we do, mod wise, while still staying in the Street Car class? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianZ Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 that would all depend on the rules for the series you want to participate in.. since you referenced TTR I'm assuming your thinking of Time Trials. you should ask in that forum, Greg can answer that question for you. In my last post, im just talking about the safety requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt9960 Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 See the reason I mention TTR is that eventually that is what we want to do, however, the requirements to participate (rightfully) require experience in the form of a license or completion of the HPDE1-4 program, so that is where we are starting. For now I'm just referring to HPDE 1-4. Which mods are legal for a 'Street Car' classed car? Meaning what can I do to the car without having to put a cage in it, wear a suit, etc. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff D Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 I think what he's asking is can I run a race prepped car in HPDE and the answer is yes you can. At least in the OH/IN and Midwest regions. I have done HPDE tech inspections for cars that were gutted, rollcages installed, or otherwise in some stage between non-street legal and not yet race ready. As long as you don't show up at the track with something that would be unsafe for HPDE you should be fine. This might vary depending on the region so it's best to check with the director in your region. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninetyfourintegra Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 I think what he's asking is can I run a race prepped car in HPDE and the answer is yes you can. At least in the OH/IN and Midwest regions. I have done HPDE tech inspections for cars that were gutted, rollcages installed, or otherwise in some stage between non-street legal and not yet race ready. As long as you don't show up at the track with something that would be unsafe for HPDE you should be fine. This might vary depending on the region so it's best to check with the director in your region. I was reading it the same way. I have no interior, roll-bar, seat, and harness and just do the usual HPDE tech (in which you do it yourself and they sign-off the day of the event). Though another way to read the question is: When does a car stop getting the HPDE inspection and get an annual race inspection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkeF Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Though another way to read the question is: When does a car stop getting the HPDE inspection and get an annual race inspection? When you get a license and enter it in a race. The race tech-in changes because a higher level of safety equipment is necessary in a car that sees wheel to wheel competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getfast Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 See the reason I mention TTR is that eventually that is what we want to do, however, the requirements to participate (rightfully) require experience in the form of a license or completion of the HPDE1-4 program, so that is where we are starting. For now I'm just referring to HPDE 1-4. Which mods are legal for a 'Street Car' classed car? Meaning what can I do to the car without having to put a cage in it, wear a suit, etc. Thanks! If I'm understanding your question correctly, you can do pretty much whatever you want to the car as long as it passes HPDE pre-tech and trackside tech. Street legality would only be dictated by the state in which the car is registered and insured, which makes no difference for HPDE. Safety equipment is pretty much voluntary at first, but always recommended. You could swap engines, turbo the car, gut the interior, add a fuel cell, plasma-cut huge pieces of metal away and replace them with carbon fiber, etc... as long as the tech guys considered the car safe enough for track use. You won't absolutely need a cage, suit, etc until you go wheel-to-wheel roadracing (those items are recommended but not required for TT, and TT does not do annual tech logbooks like the ones issued for racecars as far as I know. TT cars go through tech like HPDE3 cars specifically.) At least that's how things are in the Mid-Atlantic Region. Hope it helps, Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_2kgt Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 If I'm understanding your question correctly, you can do pretty much whatever you want to the car as long as it passes HPDE pre-tech and trackside tech. And all modifications preformed are in compliance with the CCR. If you plan on HPDE only with it, that's as far as you need to go, the CCR. If it is a mustang you don't have to follow the AI rules, only if you wanted to race in AI. A Street Car stops being one when it gets a log book, then it is a race car. Like said above, you won't get a log book or your cage numbered until you ask for a 'Race' inspection (which you can do in HPDE, as long as the car meets the mandated CCR specs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getfast Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Excellent point. I was merely considering the HPDE pre-tech and trackside tech to be verification & enforcement of the vehicle-related rules detailed in the CCR. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planomustang Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 I am in a similar quandry as the OP, and this thread has me more confused. That is probably due to my ignorance. The issue I am facing is swapping from OEM seatbelts from a car built in 1969, to SFI rated harnesses that have never been used, but have a 4 year old SFI Cert date. I think that the race harnesses will be invalid for HPDE in the near future, since they are not OEM. I am studying the CCR, but I am not an expert at it. Randy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff D Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 I am in a similar quandry as the OP, and this thread has me more confused. That is probably due to my ignorance. The issue I am facing is swapping from OEM seatbelts from a car built in 1969, to SFI rated harnesses that have never been used, but have a 4 year old SFI Cert date. I think that the race harnesses will be invalid for HPDE in the near future, since they are not OEM. I am studying the CCR, but I am not an expert at it. Randy I've read it several times and still miss things so don't feel bad. Section 11.4.8 on seatbelts. You need to conform to the race tech portion (15.5) with the exception of expiration dates. Harnesses that are expired are acceptable provided they are in good condition. This is from the 2007 CCR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-Spec#94 Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 The definition is quite simple. Street cars run in HPDE1-4 & TT and never in race group. Tech rules are those that apply to street cars. Of course if you install certain safety gear it needs to be installed properly and many times you refer to racing rules to ensure legality. IE put a cage in street car and it needs to meet racing rules. The reason for this is to create on set of rules on what is safe cage and what is not. Why reinvent the cage rules for HPDE? Race cars run in the race group and must comply with all NASA CCR safety rules and class rules. Tech inspections are for safety compliance and never for class rule compliance. Impound and post race inspections are for rules compliance and can range from nothing to teardowns. It will vary from event to event between regions and inside your region. Now Street cars may NEVER run in race group with race cars. Any car in the race group must pass a race safety tech. Again class rules are not an issue to be allowed on track only if you want to be "class legal". Race cars are allowed in HPDE1-4 & TT and must pass street car or race tech. The reason I say "or" is an update today logbook is not required in any HPDE group and what seperates a race car from a street car is really which group it runs it. In fact I have seen race cars show up and get turned down for race tech due to expired, but still good belts. They then run HPDE4 or TT since the cars will pass street car tech in those groups. Now if the car has a valid race logbook it will be allowed just fine in HPDE. So... if you slowly build a car from street stock to near race car you follow the street car tech rules all the way. Now this does mean if you put in a cage you must follow the race rules on cage work. Not only is this required, but a good idea since if you every sell the car you want to make so any thing you install would be race safety legal as called out in the CCR's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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