05 cayuse Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 I've started "open-tracking" with my local Mustang Club. I've changed out the pads in my 2005 Mustang to Hawk HPS and added Hyperfirm's stainless steel brake lines. Now what high temp brake fluid should I use? I like the idea of synthetics because they won't peel the paint if spilled, but are they any good? Thanks for helping a new addict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getfast Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Ate Super Blue has served me (and many people I can think of) well for years. Others may prefer different stuff. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGZOSTD Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 I have been HPDEing and Time Trialing an 06 here in the Nor Cal area for a little over a year . The synthetics are probly not the way to go , mush at the pedal . I just run castrol right now but will probly go with the Brake Man's fluild or Motul. Brakes are my biggest expence. , Hawk seams to be about the only choice , the HPs and HPplus are not good enough if you run fast . They can't handle the heat , my brakes run from around 900 and up to 1200 deg. had a few brake fires . I modifided the backing plates for 3" hose from the local roundy round supply house . took out the lower plastic grill incert and attached the hose to the sq. openings for a temporary duct. I like the Hawk DTC60 compound . they work exalant but need lots of heat. after about 1 sec. of pedal they come in real hard and are easy to modulate to stay out of the antilock . Don't run any track pad including the HPplus on the street , they claim they are good for the street but the don't like the colder temps and will distroy the rotors . I just learned this after buying 4 new power slots and after 800 miles on the street they are junk , I just use stock type or pep boys cheep pads and I just drive very mild on the street . The last event I ran the Hawk HT10 and they are good but no where near the DTC60 . The car is pretty stock with some exaust mods and a C&L racer intake and tuner , 20% stiffer springs. and Hankook dots . and the first time in TT last year I broke the track record ( Thunder Hill ) and came home with 2 seconds , beat by 2 tenth's . This year at Infinion I broke the record from last yr. and got beat by 1.6 sec. but I was moved up a class. Hawk makes a lot of good pads , you should find one you like . Expect to buy rotors about every 4 events unless you go to an aftermarket setup . Rember the Mustang is a tank , I weight in at 3400 with half a tank without me in the car . Blead the brakes every track day and the performance will stay up . If you don't after a few laps you will start losing the brakes . Replace the Hubs every yr. , the heat cooks the grease and the bearings start to get sloppy. The new Mustang is a good track car , get the camber bolts or plates , This really helps . Good Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExRacer Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Steve, nice expo on the personal and professional results as you increase speeds and need to look after the anchor end of this deal. So many people just look to motor to gain the advantage and that process of improving your brakes is textbook. We are running the 25 hours again this year and the spindles were replaced because of the cooking you explained. Check out this link on fluids, StopTech has written the "Bible on Braking" with this stuff in their white papers. http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_brakefluid_1a.shtml See ya in the "Braking Zone" . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_2kgt Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 I've started "open-tracking" with my local Mustang Club. I've changed out the pads in my 2005 Mustang to Hawk HPS and added Hyperfirm's stainless steel brake lines. Now what high temp brake fluid should I use? I like the idea of synthetics because they won't peel the paint if spilled, but are they any good? Thanks for helping a new addict. Keep a close eye on those Hawk pads, I had 2 sets basically fall off the backing plate at VIR on me. Brand new, lasted all of 30 minutes (and they didn't really work all that well anyway). Been using Carbotech ever since. For fluid I'd suggest looking into the Ford HD fluid (PM-1C). Ford makes it for trucks but works just fine in race cars. Cheap to, I buy it by the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGZOSTD Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 White-2kgt , Which hawk pad was that , thats why you need to find the temp you run your brakes to . I had the same thing happen at Reno with the rears on stock Ford pads . To much heat and the pad itself looses bond . Stop tech brakes are a good choice , how is the pad cost . Everyone I know that runs Stop Tech likes the performance . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGZOSTD Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 ExRacer, Were you in the Mustang that lost the trans , I guess so it was the only Stang there . I was crewing on a Otter car , had a lot of fun that weekend . I was going to come over and talk to you guy but you looked busy with the car on stands . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_2kgt Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 White-2kgt , Which hawk pad was that , thats why you need to find the temp you run your brakes to . I had the same thing happen at Reno with the rears on stock Ford pads . To much heat and the pad itself looses bond . Stop tech brakes are a good choice , how is the pad cost . Everyone I know that runs Stop Tech likes the performance . One was a set of blues or blacks (can't remember) and the other was an HT10. This was on the rear. The weekend prior I had gone through 2 sets of Ford pads in 1 session, they didn't fall off the backing plate, just wore completely down (this was the stock solid rotors, between that event and the next one w/ the hawk pads I changed to cobra 11" vented rotors). I run XP10's out back now and have zero problems. Get about 3 weekends out of a set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExRacer Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Nah, we're the FFR-sponsored Cobra, but had the same drama with gearboxes, rotors/pads and spindle-related heat problems. I don't know if many people understand what an engineering torture-test endurance racing provides. Great thread, reminds me to keep better records on caliper/rotor temps during test/practice sessions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05 cayuse Posted May 4, 2007 Author Share Posted May 4, 2007 Excellent advice guys! I can see I've got a long ways to go. I'm not carry that much speed yet so I'll probably run the Hawks until I begin to notice that I am beginning to exceed their limits. Pads aren't cheap that's for sure. By the way, I had the opportunity to run Thunderhill two weeks ago for their HPDS. Awesome track with it's elevation changes. PIR up here in Oregon is a flat track. The day at Thunderhill was going great until the end of the day when I screwed up in turn #14/15 and aquainted my car with the white barrels they had set on the apron. I've played the situation over in my head a hundred times. All I can figuire is a combination of apexing a fuzz too early combined with forgetting to turn off the dang T/C killed me. When I tried to easy on the throttle to save the skid the pedal when dead. Now I'm paying $2500 for the education of not going faster than your ability. The event did not kill my interest, just brought me down a few notches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon dawes Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 as an "outsider" just signing up for my first HPDE, all this talk of different brake setups for the elephantine S197 Mustangs gets me a little worried. i guess you experiment with what you have and work within your limits. I read on here that one AI racer [Enrico??] has had the same pads for two years with his "secret" brakeman setup. either way I'M EXCITED TO GET MY MONSTER OUT THERE AND MAKE SOME NOISE. . . oh and try to stay on the pavement rather than the grass. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmchopeful Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 northy_polk, I ran a 2000 Z28 (3300 lbs.) last and this year with basically the same brake setup at Mid-Ohio. Last year I started with Staisfied GS5 pads up front and ATE Blue brake fluid. No fade until about the last two laps and even then not excessive. This year I added StopTech braided brake lines and NO fade (speed at end on back straight 130+). I plan on changing to CarboTech AX6 pads later. I still run the stock pads in back. Stock brake rotors from NAPA, no cracks. All that said, I would start with a street/track pad and the fluid (bleed all through) and then see what happens. My speed gradually increased but by then I had a feel for the brakes. Changing out your pads, rotors and fluid is not that expensive for a beginning. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_2kgt Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 as an "outsider" just signing up for my first HPDE, all this talk of different brake setups for the elephantine S197 Mustangs gets me a little worried. i guess you experiment with what you have and work within your limits. I read on here that one AI racer [Enrico??] has had the same pads for two years with his "secret" brakeman setup. either way I'M EXCITED TO GET MY MONSTER OUT THERE AND MAKE SOME NOISE. . . oh and try to stay on the pavement rather than the grass. . . he's AIX, and considering he is the only person I have ever heard of capable of turning those lap times, with no cooling and never changing pads/rotors, call me skeptical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon dawes Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 ok. "you're skeptical". like that? people keep saying "bleed" the brakes. i'm assuming that means CHANGE the fluid completely, right!? i keep getting confused. . . i HATE taking my car to somebody else because i just don't trust them, but wouldn't it be easier to pay somebody to switch the fluid for me? and if so, who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runningmole Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Motul 600 in my car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_2kgt Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 ok. "you're skeptical". like that? people keep saying "bleed" the brakes. i'm assuming that means CHANGE the fluid completely, right!? i keep getting confused. . . i HATE taking my car to somebody else because i just don't trust them, but wouldn't it be easier to pay somebody to switch the fluid for me? and if so, who? I only do a full bleed once or twice a season, I'll bleed the calipers after every track day, usually just go ahead and run a whole bottle through it (8oz?) since once you crack that seal you might as well use it, and the ford stuff only cost $3/bottle. You can bleed you fluid easy, just get an unsuspecting friend to sit there and pump the pedal . The problem will come when you let the reservoir go dry and suck air into the MC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattm Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 Before the first session on the track replace all the fluid in your system. This is easy with ATE Super Blue as the fluid is actually BLUE!! That makes it easy to determine when you have fully flushed out all your old fluid. If you expect to go to the track, learn to bleed your own fluid as it is easy and you will be doing it fairly often. It is time well spent learning how to bleed the brakes now, before you are going faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerkat Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 If you FLUSH you system you are changing all the fluid. If you BLEED you system you are just letting out some fluid at each caliper. I think that most people who play on track do their own brake work. Mostly to save money, but also because some times you need to change pads or rotors during an event. It depends a lot on the track your driving on how fast you go through pads. The more work you can do on your car save you money for more track events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_2kgt Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 The more work you can do on your car save you money for more food/clothes. fixed that for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrrracer Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 Motul RBF 600 in all of my stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon dawes Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 ok, thanks everybody, but my question remains on how to get the OEM stuff out and the new stuff in. do i "bleed" the fluid til it's low in the resorvoir then start adding New Fluid of Choice until New Fluid of Choice starts coming out the bleeder valve? that seems i'd risk the air-in-the-ABS system problem and a trip to the dealer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerkat Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 The more work you can do on your car save you money for more food/clothes. fixed that for you Thanks for the fix. I guess there are a few things more important than track events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_2kgt Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 The more work you can do on your car save you money for more food/clothes. fixed that for you Thanks for the fix. I guess there are a few things more important than track events. actually I was trying to say that there will always be money for track events, saving $$$ on fluid just frees up more for food ok, thanks everybody, but my question remains on how to get the OEM stuff out and the new stuff in. do i "bleed" the fluid til it's low in the resorvoir then start adding New Fluid of Choice until New Fluid of Choice starts coming out the bleeder valve? that seems i'd risk the air-in-the-ABS system problem and a trip to the dealer. Suck the old stuff out with a turkey baster, then refill with the new stuff then goto the passenger side rear and start bleeding, run 1/2 a small bottle through the system, then run the rest through the other rear caliper. Then run 1/4 bottle through each front, that will most likely flush out the entire system. Or you can get some ATE super blue and the color change will tell you when the old stuff is out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce L. Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 ATE Super Blue and Type 200 are the same fluid, just different colors (blue and amber) so alternating those will tell you when the full flush is done. As already stated, a bleed is just letting some fluid out - be watching for tiny air bubbles and if you're seeing those, keep bleeding until they stop. Don't ever let the reservoir run out of fluid. There are lots of online writeups on bleeding brakes. Make sure you're doing it correctly as you don't want to introduce air into the lines. Maybe ask to go watch someone do it on their car or if they're really nice they'll come help you with yours the first time. cheers, bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon dawes Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 sounds good! thanks fellas. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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