hypo: getting out of disabled car at HPDE?

[jon dawes]

let's say i've just come round Oaktree and am getting on the gas. all of a sudden the car sputters and dies. i pull off into the grass some distance from the hot track and come to a stop. and i've just been signed off to drive solo [to further limit the hypo]. i think "oh crap, not this again. the cold air intake has popped off." i know that with a quick pop of the hood and a shove, the intake will go on and get me back to the pits for a proper tightening. . . a tow could damage the car and cause everybody 'unnecessary' delay. . . [fill in the blank with a few other nervous thoughts racing through your head]. . .

 

so, what to do?

 

LET ME SAY FIRST I WOULD NEVER GET OUT OF THE CAR UNLESS IT WAS ON FIRE OR I WAS ON FIRE. . . at least that's what i remember from driving/racing books and the classroom.

 

so, are there exceptions? is this one example? do i have discretion, or do i make the "T" or other "tow" sign to the corner workers?

 

thanks in advance!

 

ps: obviously, the hypo could involve some other known reason for the car stalling [translated: this is not an invitation to let me know that my choice of equipment is wrong]

[white_2kgt]

You call for a tow truck and sit in your car until it gets there, then you can inform them of what you THINK the problem is. 9x out of 10 they would rather you fix the problem and drive away then try to hookup to a car w/o a tow hook. Sometimes they will 'cover' your car with the tow truck while you 'fix' the car briefly. Just don't pop out of the car and stick your head under the hood, you will be laughed at and maybe get a face-to-face with UNK or Grumpy later in the day.

[jon dawes]

thanks Chad, that's an alternative that I didn't think of. . .the tow vehicle/Corner Workers permitting the 'fix'.

[nasaregistrar]

I can PROMISE if you get out of the car in an HPDE and you are not on fire or upside down, you will have a convo with Race Director and/or Other officials. It will definitely be more than 'laughed at'. Barring the 2 previously mentioned circumstances, you are safest in the car belted in wearing your helmet.

[white_2kgt]

It will definitely be more than 'laughed at'.

 

well, we laughed pretty darn hard w/ a certain VW driver broke down on the shenandoah circuit then proceeded to call his buddies over to help who then JUMPED the wall and crossed the HOT track to assist said VW driver. You know who to ask about that situation and if not PM me and I'll fill you in, I think you were there that weekend though. (NOT a NASA-MA event)

[nasajj]

Let's not forget the guy who stopped coming out of turn 3 whose wheels were loose and he stopped to check them after he was given the black flag.....in other words, he stopped to check his own meatball...

[nasaregistrar]

It will definitely be more than 'laughed at'.

 

well, we laughed pretty darn hard w/ a certain VW driver broke down on the shenandoah circuit then proceeded to call his buddies over to help who then JUMPED the wall and crossed the HOT track to assist said VW driver. You know who to ask about that situation and if not PM me and I'll fill you in, I think you were there that weekend though. (NOT a NASA-MA event)

Yeah. I know about that although it happened after I left. I was only spectating for a little while.....

 

Yes Funny in one way but NOT funny at all from the safety standpoint. But You know that already Chad...Preaching to the Choir.

[nasaregistrar]

Let's not forget the guy who stopped coming out of turn 3 whose wheels were loose and he stopped to check them after he was given the black flag.....in other words, he stopped to check his own meatball...

and Mr. EVO at the top of the roller coaster at VIR....

Bottom line Jon.....Not a good idea.

[jon dawes]

i think what i've taken from this little hypo is that the track workers may be willing to work with the driver to avoid a tow and get the car back on track, depending on the situation. this was something i had not considered. . . they see so much crap out there that i'm sure nothing would surprise them!!!

[nasaregistrar]

i think what i've taken from this little hypo is that the track workers may be willing to work with the driver to avoid a tow and get the car back on track, depending on the situation. this was something i had not considered. . . they see so much crap out there that i'm sure nothing would surprise them!!!

While this is possible, it is not likely. Standing on the side of a hot track is not safe. If your car is disabled, plan on a tow.

[white_2kgt]

i think what i've taken from this little hypo is that the track workers may be willing to work with the driver to avoid a tow and get the car back on track, depending on the situation. this was something i had not considered. . . they see so much crap out there that i'm sure nothing would surprise them!!!

While this is possible, it is not likely. Standing on the side of a hot track is not safe. If your car is disabled, plan on a tow.

 

In other words, plan on tow hooks or straps that are EASY to see and get to. While the workers are careful they are hooking up the car as fast as they can to get out of harms way, can you blame them?

[getfast]

let's say i've just come round Oaktree and am getting on the gas. all of a sudden the car sputters and dies. i pull off into the grass some distance from the hot track and come to a stop. and i've just been signed off to drive solo [to further limit the hypo]. i think "oh crap, not this again. the cold air intake has popped off." i know that with a quick pop of the hood and a shove, the intake will go on and get me back to the pits for a proper tightening. . . a tow could damage the car and cause everybody 'unnecessary' delay. . . [fill in the blank with a few other nervous thoughts racing through your head]. . .

 

so, what to do?

 

LET ME SAY FIRST I WOULD NEVER GET OUT OF THE CAR UNLESS IT WAS ON FIRE OR I WAS ON FIRE. . . at least that's what i remember from driving/racing books and the classroom.

 

so, are there exceptions? is this one example? do i have discretion, or do i make the "T" or other "tow" sign to the corner workers?

 

 

From Oaktree you could probably coast into the south paddock well out of harm's way and figure out your problem there... or at a minimum, the south course hot pit road where you're at least behind a wall until someone else comes coasting in with no brakes. But I think that's missing your point.

 

The short version is... and I know this has been covered many times... STAY IN YOUR CAR UNLESS IT IS ON FIRE. I know it sucks to sit there waiting for help, but it's for your safety. You can signal however you wish to anyone you can see, as long as you're still belted/helmeted when you do it. It truly is the safest place you can be.

 

This rule has been violated three times at events I've attended so far in 2007, which is unacceptable. The VW driver on Shenandoah's front straight was immediately parked and told he wasn't welcome back (even though he worked for a major sponsor of that org.) The Evo driver who hopped out in T14 at VIR was denied a TT license check ride and parked for the day. And there was another one at VIR recently, just past pit out on the inside by the wall. He (and his instructor!) were yelled at by several people - of which I was one - and they were damn lucky they were ever allowed back on the track.

 

We really don't have this rule because we're hardasses. We have it because "in the car unless it's on fire" is literally THE safest place you can be, parked or not. Just like everything on a car is a wear item... every part of a track is a danger zone.

 

PS- everyone should make sure they know the difference between "smoke" and "steam" from underneath a car. One means fire and the other means hot water. One is potentially dangerous and the other is merely unfortunate.

 

Preaching to the choir I hope,

 

Jon

[white_2kgt]

We have it because "in the car unless it's on fire" is literally THE safest place you can be, parked or not.

 

Well, I guess I'm in violation of the rule as well, when I was flipped on my lid the car wasn't on fire but I got the f-out as fast as I could once I knew I had stopped. I did have the presence of mind to walk away from the track and make sure I was behind a quad-rail, I think I walked 1/2 way to oak tree from the cutover with corner-worker in tow asking if I was alright, at this point I turned around and realized the track had been red-flagged. The ambulance driver was kind enough to pick me up down in the field.

 

Choir or not, preach on, some people will get out for the dumbest of things and others just want to learn.

[getfast]

I consider a rollover a slight exception to the rule because I understand that the first thing on your mind isn't "am I safer in here?" ... plus, if TV and movies are to be believed, any upside-down car is about to explode.

 

Seriously, I think you did the right thing getting away from the car and getting behind a guardrail. As soon as approaching drivers see a big waving yellow and an upside-down car, they slow way down (hopefully not locking up the brakes and hitting said inverted car while staring at it - but anything can happen of course.) Timing from waving yellow to red is essential in this instance. But long story short it sounds like your head was in the right place, so no worries...

 

Jon

[white_2kgt]

But long story short it sounds like your head was in the right place, so no worries...

 

Jon

 

Other than being inverted of course

I did grab for the fire bottle release with the right hand (just had on it, didn't actually pull) and flipped the kill switch with the left while rolling over, I was pretty shocked when I realized I had done both those things almost like instinct. I guess all those late nights just sitting in the car w/ the belts on making sure I knew where every switch was with my eyes closed really helped.

[jon dawes]

can you blame them?

 

absolutely not!

 

I guess all those late nights just sitting in the car w/ the belts on making sure I knew where every switch was with my eyes closed really helped.

 

hey, that may sound silly to some, but if it's the difference between being 'level' headed in a roll and losing your marbles and doing the wrong thing, i'd rather do what you did and sit in the car for a few minutes and make sure i know where everything is.

 

thanks again everybody! as usual, some of the answers were not necessarily those i expected and i've learned a few more things.

[jimgood]

I think if someone is telling the tow driver, "Hey, I know what the problem is and I can fix it right now...", the person deserves a conversation w/ officials because it's undoubtedly going to be something he should have fixed BEFORE he went on track.

[nasaregistrar]

But long story short it sounds like your head was in the right place, so no worries...

 

Jon

 

Other than being inverted of course

I did grab for the fire bottle release with the right hand (just had on it, didn't actually pull) and flipped the kill switch with the left while rolling over, I was pretty shocked when I realized I had done both those things almost like instinct. I guess all those late nights just sitting in the car w/ the belts on making sure I knew where every switch was with my eyes closed really helped.

getting out for being on the lid is excuseable as well. I think the safety systems in cars(street cars, HPDE) are engineered to work while the car is on the tires instead of the roof.

[nasaregistrar]

I think if someone is telling the tow driver, "Hey, I know what the problem is and I can fix it right now...", the person deserves a conversation w/ officials because it's undoubtedly going to be something he should have fixed BEFORE he went on track.

turbo cars blowing off boost hoses comes to mind....

[RSCoupe]

I think if someone is telling the tow driver, "Hey, I know what the problem is and I can fix it right now...", the person deserves a conversation w/ officials because it's undoubtedly going to be something he should have fixed BEFORE he went on track.

 

Just because you know what the problem is, it doesn't mean it was a problem before you went out. I know my car inside out, so when something does go wrong, I usually know what it is.

 

turbo cars blowing off boost hoses comes to mind....

 

BTDT...

[jon dawes]

i was thinking exactly what you said, but was waiting for somebody else to say it. . . and it's not really the point here. . .but yes, i'd imagine that a large majority of folks out on the track would know pretty much exactly what went wrong if something unfortunately did break and cause them to attract the attention of the flaggers/corner workers.

[STRINGER]

after reading this post made me think of one huge thing on my car.

 

I have no tow hooks. I went out and looked and could not find a place a tow truck could hook up to my car and drag it per say to the pits if needed. Although I hope I never need...but could happen. I have started looking into this and will correct it...but shipping will not get the parts needed in time for my next event.

 

I am actualy considering rigging a home made device to provide a tow means in the front. The rear in say a sand trap I dont know about yet.

 

I have a 91 Miata and the Licence plate mount seems to mount to a very sturdy place. Very near the actual tow hook location as I see it. Any thoughs on this?

 

If I could find an after market tow hook to bolt down...just in case...would make me feel a bit better. Last thing I want to do is to hook up under the hood to tow.

[jon dawes]

i'd imagine with all those SM cars that SOMEBODY will have a quick fix for you

[Renntag]

Doesnt the Miata have tow hooks stock? Like they are expecting it to break down? ....lol

 

Jon, I do believe that in the rules it says not to egress from your car for any reason during a hot session. If exiting oak tree you lost power, coasting to the hot pit for the south paddock would be your best bet and you could get out of the car there as you are behind the wall.

And please note jon, that your car does not NEED a cold air kit or any filtration for that matter in order to run. You DO however need to have the mass air sensor attached. If it were to come loose allowing the motor to draw in unmetered air, that would cause trouble.

 

As far as the comment above about KNOWING what is wrong with your car and that you knew before hand.....are you kidding? I never take my car out onto the track KNOWING something is wrong. I would just assume SKIP a session or an entire DAY for that matter, then risk an on track failure.

 

July at VIR I had my first mechanical failure all season. A driveshaft broke into 2 parts. As often as I am under the car, and checking the driveshaft, I had NO IDEA that it could have gone into failure. As soon as it broke going into T3, I knew exactly what it was.

Could I have avoided it? No.

Did I know this was going to happen? No.

Did I get out of my car to check it out? No.

Did I coast off the track all the way to a corner stand? Yes.

Did I sit there the ENTIRE session? Yes.

[beerkat]

I have no tow hooks. I went out and looked and could not find a place a tow truck could hook up to my car and drag it per say to the pits if needed.

 

I spun in T8 at CMP one time in the rain and ended up in the trees. I sat there until the fire and tow truck showed up. After the emergency workers checked to make sure I was OK the tow guys had to hook up to my front lower A frame to tow me out. That was in a Must/Cobra. I had peeled a tire off the rim. I stayed in the car until the session had been Black Flagged and the track was clear. I also ask permission to get out of the car before I did.