Congrats to JME

[Jeff F]

You guys have to realize that building a car like this is not like starting with a brand new body in white that has zero rust and defects and all of the parts are just a call away from your local Ford dealer, it's a 37 year old car. In cases like this one is sometimes left without a reasonable alternative so you have to make due with what you have and keep the intent of the rules as your guidelines.

While I understand where you are coming from, realize that if you are allowed to do it, then everyone else must be allowed to do it-- we can't say that you are allowed to replace your firewall with aluminum because you started with a crusty old car, but the guy building the 2008 BIW can't. It's one of those slippery slopes. Do we allow floors to be replaced by aluminum? Hmm, I can't find a new roof for a Fox-body and mine is rusted. Maybe I'll replace that with aluminum too. See where this goes?

 

Matt/Pendejoe-- the reason that this is relevant now is that the decision-makers seem to have a lot more difficulty disallowing a modification on a complete ready-to-race car than one that is in build. I don't want to see this car turned away and not allowed to race, but I also don't want to see this modification allowed. It is in the best interest of everyone to settle this now. How much of a BITCH FEST would it be if these guys show up for a race and get sent home?

[JWL]

Guys-

 

This is an easy one. If the firewall that came with the car isn't there, it's not legal. I appreciate the lengths that Julio and crew went to promote our series, but as has been pointed out until it comes to tech for a book it's really all academic. No one from NASA has crawled all over the car to check for class and CCR legality, but I'm sure the guys will consult further on before it runs, So, for now it's just a nice effort by some friends of the series to get the AIX name out there on a really beautiful car.

 

Thanks and let's let this one rest.

 

-JWL

[JME1]

You guys have to realize that building a car like this is not like starting with a brand new body in white that has zero rust and defects and all of the parts are just a call away from your local Ford dealer, it's a 37 year old car. In cases like this one is sometimes left without a reasonable alternative so you have to make due with what you have and keep the intent of the rules as your guidelines.

While I understand where you are coming from, realize that if you are allowed to do it, then everyone else must be allowed to do it-- we can't say that you are allowed to replace your firewall with aluminum because you started with a crusty old car, but the guy building the 2008 BIW can't. It's one of those slippery slopes. Do we allow floors to be replaced by aluminum? Hmm, I can't find a new roof for a Fox-body and mine is rusted. Maybe I'll replace that with aluminum too. See where this goes?

 

Matt/Pendejoe-- the reason that this is relevant now is that the decision-makers seem to have a lot more difficulty disallowing a modification on a complete ready-to-race car than one that is in build. I don't want to see this car turned away and not allowed to race, but I also don't want to see this modification allowed. It is in the best interest of everyone to settle this now. How much of a BITCH FEST would it be if these guys show up for a race and get sent home?

 

While I can appreciate everyone's concerns as they may apply to the AI class, everyone needs to realize that this is an AIX car being built so please be clear on the AIX rules before responding to keep those watching and following this thread from becoming confused.

 

Jeff, you may not be aware but in AIX it is already legal to replace your rusty roof (or not rusty) panel with a composite (or aluminum) replacement panel as you would find on Roco's, Paul Brown's and Dave Martis' cars just to name a few. These composite panels have been available from Tiger Racing for the SN-95 and 2005-2008 bodies for a while now. And as for the floor, the NEW rules allow AIX cars to completely remove the floor from the back half of the car as long as the appropriate measures are taken.

 

We have been watching the rules, series and the AI/AIX classes evolve over the years and how things have changed to accommodate specific circumstances to keep the sport and most importantly the participation growing. For the AI class you may recall a time when composite hatchbacks, trunks and fenders were not allowed...now they are. This was changed to accommodate the racers, and to keep participation in the class up and in hopes to attract new comers to join while keeping the costs down. Our goals are simple, promote the series in a professional and positive manner, attract new blood to join the ranks from our efforts, sell product and have fun on the track racing cars with our friends.

[V8cobra99]

Thank you JME for this effort and excellent car build. The man hours and attention to detail is just awesome....

Andy

[b_tone]

You guys have to realize that building a car like this is not like starting with a brand new body in white that has zero rust and defects and all of the parts are just a call away from your local Ford dealer, it's a 37 year old car. In cases like this one is sometimes left without a reasonable alternative so you have to make due with what you have and keep the intent of the rules as your guidelines.

While I understand where you are coming from, realize that if you are allowed to do it, then everyone else must be allowed to do it-- we can't say that you are allowed to replace your firewall with aluminum because you started with a crusty old car, but the guy building the 2008 BIW can't. It's one of those slippery slopes. Do we allow floors to be replaced by aluminum? Hmm, I can't find a new roof for a Fox-body and mine is rusted. Maybe I'll replace that with aluminum too. See where this goes?

 

Matt/Pendejoe-- the reason that this is relevant now is that the decision-makers seem to have a lot more difficulty disallowing a modification on a complete ready-to-race car than one that is in build. I don't want to see this car turned away and not allowed to race, but I also don't want to see this modification allowed. It is in the best interest of everyone to settle this now. How much of a BITCH FEST would it be if these guys show up for a race and get sent home?

 

While I can appreciate everyone's concerns as they may apply to the AI class, everyone needs to realize that this is an AIX car being built so please be clear on the AIX rules before responding to keep those watching and following this thread from becoming confused.

 

Jeff, you may not be aware but in AIX it is already legal to replace your rusty roof (or not rusty) panel with a composite (or aluminum) replacement panel as you would find on Roco's, Paul Brown's and Dave Martis' cars just to name a few. These composite panels have been available from Tiger Racing for the SN-95 and 2005-2008 bodies for a while now. And as for the floor, the NEW rules allow AIX cars to completely remove the floor from the back half of the car as long as the appropriate measures are taken.

 

We have been watching the rules, series and the AI/AIX classes evolve over the years and how things have changed to accommodate specific circumstances to keep the sport and most importantly the participation growing. For the AI class you may recall a time when composite hatchbacks, trunks and fenders were not allowed...now they are. This was changed to accommodate the racers, and to keep participation in the class up and in hopes to attract new comers to join while keeping the costs down. Our goals are simple, promote the series in a professional and positive manner, attract new blood to join the ranks from our efforts, sell product and have fun on the track racing cars with our friends.

 

Regardless of this being an AIX car, it is still not legal to cut away the factory firewall and replace it with an aluminum piece. You understand that right?

 

I will say that the paint/powder coat looked very nice.

[DaveM]

I will say that the paint/powder coat looked very nice.

 

The wing is bitchin' also...

 

DaveM

[V8cobra99]

T_Bone - Can you please relax. As JWL and others noted above, NASA officials have not inspected the car yet. Are you a regional director of some type, out of curiosity? I can promise you, the car will go through a full tech inspection out here in the west before it hits the track for an official AIX race.

Andy

[onralz]

To those that think there is some bashing going on, please re-read my quote from two pages ago. Most of us are only trying to help and to build the class.

 

I also saw the car at SEMA and it is a beautiful car. I also see multiple things that concern me wouldn't be legal for AI/X. I think that the people who are bringing up specifics are only doing so to help JME. We want the car to run and be legal without having to modify the car after it's already built. Many cars have been built for AI and have been turned away because they weren't built to the letter of the rules. Better to listen and verify now than to have to rebuild. I hope to see it out soon.

[ST#97]

and 1979 thru 2004 Mustangs.

 

speak more of this setup!!! That would put 3 SLA products on the market and if Maximum would get to work.... then 4!! Maybe the price will start coming down to reasonable numbers!!! Until then I will keep winning with the old stuff!!!

[b_tone]

T_Bone - Can you please relax. As JWL and others noted above, NASA officials have not inspected the car yet. Are you a regional director of some type, out of curiosity? I can promise you, the car will go through a full tech inspection out here in the west before it hits the track for an official AIX race.

Andy

 

Dick A.I. West - my name is b_tone, not the other way.

 

 

While I have the up-most trust in our renowned Tech process my question was directly to the builder of this car. This builder inferred that since this car was AIX legal and if it was not currently AIX legal we should keep watching the rules to prevent further confusion. Since I was confused as to why anyone would build an AIX car and knowingly cut out the fire wall to function as nothing but a flange for an aluminum sheet I asked if the builder of that very car understood that cutting out the OEM firewall was infact not legal.

 

Oh, that was Director A.I. West, my sincere apologies.

 

 

bpt

 

also, no I am not a regional director of any sort, but I aspire to be some day, either that or just a really fast driver.

[JME1]

and 1979 thru 2004 Mustangs.

 

speak more of this setup!!! That would put 3 SLA products on the market and if Maximum would get to work.... then 4!! Maybe the price will start coming down to reasonable numbers!!! Until then I will keep winning with the old stuff!!!

 

Our SLA set up is different than the rest not only because of it's appearance, materials and manufacturing process but because of it's patent pending design. We basically started with a clean sheet of paper and designed it based on optimizing the geometry for race applications and not just retrofitting parts onto Ford's passenger car strut geometry.

 

We did not start with a k-member originally intended for a strut set up and and piecemeal parts onto it just to have a "me too" SLA, it is specifically designed for the purpose intended.

The following are some key bullet points describing the benefits of our PRO-Series suspension:

Model designed using the latest in CAD/ CAM software technology

Design confirmed using FEA (Finite Element Analysis)

Zero Bump steer

Modular construction

Center section of k-member removable to access oil pan removal without removing engine or k-member

Wheel base adjustable for race application

Spindles incorporate a 2" drop to maintain proper geometry

Available with traditional upright shock configuration and/ or upgradeable to cantilever pushrod design with inboard shocks as an option for easy of tune ability

Adjustable swaybar

Self lubricating rod ends and spherical bearings do not require lubrication

Can accommodate ANY brake calipers

Uses 1979-2004 Mustang steering rack

Wide range of shocks available

Designed to accommodate stock and aftermarket oil pans

Spindles available for SN-95 or tapered roller bearing hubs

Wide range of adjustability for alignment settings without compromising ideal geometry

 

JME1

[ST#97]

and 1979 thru 2004 Mustangs.

 

speak more of this setup!!! That would put 3 SLA products on the market and if Maximum would get to work.... then 4!! Maybe the price will start coming down to reasonable numbers!!! Until then I will keep winning with the old stuff!!!

 

Our SLA set up is different than the rest not only because of it's appearance, materials and manufacturing process but because of it's patent pending design. We basically started with a clean sheet of paper and designed it based on optimizing the geometry for race applications and not just retrofitting parts onto Ford's passenger car strut geometry.

 

We did not start with a k-member originally intended for a strut set up and and piecemeal parts onto it just to have a "me too" SLA, it is specifically designed for the purpose intended.

The following are some key bullet points describing the benefits of our PRO-Series suspension:

Model designed using the latest in CAD/ CAM software technology

Design confirmed using FEA (Finite Element Analysis)

Zero Bump steer

Modular construction

Center section of k-member removable to access oil pan removal without removing engine or k-member

Wheel base adjustable for race application

Spindles incorporate a 2" drop to maintain proper geometry

Available with traditional upright shock configuration and/ or upgradeable to cantilever pushrod design with inboard shocks as an option for easy of tune ability

Adjustable swaybar

Self lubricating rod ends and spherical bearings do not require lubrication

Can accommodate ANY brake calipers

Uses 1979-2004 Mustang steering rack

Wide range of shocks available

Designed to accommodate stock and aftermarket oil pans

Spindles available for SN-95 or tapered roller bearing hubs

Wide range of adjustability for alignment settings without compromising ideal geometry

 

JME1

 

Outstanding. Would love to see more literature, pricing and install feedback!!! Also, does this work with the mod motor cars..ie, engine mounts are different as well as pans. I know there is a guy in AI in our region thinking of the Agent 47 setup, I wouldn't mind looking at this system to see the difference....if I don't break the bank on it!

[V8cobra99]

b_tone, did you just call me a "Dick" ?? Did you really think that was necessary ? Hmm....

andy

[b_tone]

b_tone, did you just call me a "Dick" ?? Did you really think that was necessary ? Hmm....

andy

 

No, I called you Dick, not "a Dick", there is a difference.

[JME1]

Outstanding. Would love to see more literature, pricing and install feedback!!! Also, does this work with the mod motor cars..ie, engine mounts are different as well as pans. I know there is a guy in AI in our region thinking of the Agent 47 setup, I wouldn't mind looking at this system to see the difference....if I don't break the bank on it!

 

We are working on adding a page to our website (http://www.jmeenterprises.com) that will have more detailed info once it is up. For the time being if anyone has specific questions please email me directly or call us directly.

 

To accommodate the mod motors it is just a matter of finalizing the motor mounts. Oil pans are not an issue as stock and aftermarket work fine. Our goals are not to break the bank but rather give everyone the option to go with a suspension system specifically designed to provide unsurpassed performance which by design should make you faster on the track.

 

JME1

[V8cobra99]

b_tone - Wow, good... luckily my real name is Richard.... I was really about to get pissed....

Richard

[b_tone]

 

 

Our SLA set up is different than the rest not only because of it's appearance, materials and manufacturing process but because of it's patent pending design. We basically started with a clean sheet of paper and designed it based on optimizing the geometry for race applications and not just retrofitting parts onto Ford's passenger car strut geometry.

 

We did not start with a k-member originally intended for a strut set up and and piecemeal parts onto it just to have a "me too" SLA, it is specifically designed for the purpose intended.

The following are some key bullet points describing the benefits of our PRO-Series suspension:

Model designed using the latest in CAD/ CAM software technology

Design confirmed using FEA (Finite Element Analysis)

Zero Bump steer

Modular construction

Center section of k-member removable to access oil pan removal without removing engine or k-member

Wheel base adjustable for race application

Spindles incorporate a 2" drop to maintain proper geometry

Available with traditional upright shock configuration and/ or upgradeable to cantilever pushrod design with inboard shocks as an option for easy of tune ability

Adjustable swaybar

Self lubricating rod ends and spherical bearings do not require lubrication

Can accommodate ANY brake calipers

Uses 1979-2004 Mustang steering rack

Wide range of shocks available

Designed to accommodate stock and aftermarket oil pans

Spindles available for SN-95 or tapered roller bearing hubs

Wide range of adjustability for alignment settings without compromising ideal geometry

 

JME1

 

To actually add to this discussion I have a few questions:

 

Can roll steer be added to your system or is it strictly a zero bump design?

 

What parts of the design are modular and where else in the system can they be utilized?

 

How is the wheel base adjustable and how much adjustment is there?

 

Are the drop spindles required for a lowered ride height or will the RC's still be inside the window with OEM type of spindles if used with your system?

 

Will fatigue be an issue with your relocated damper due to the spring/damper force on what is primarily a cantilevered beam?

 

Can both radial mount and ear mount brake calipers be used or is it an either/or situation?

 

bpt

Edited November 14, 2007 by Guest

[b_tone]

b_tone - Wow, good... luckily my real name is Richard.... I was really about to get pissed....

Richard

 

And here I thought it was Andy. Everyday I learn something new.

[JME1]

To actually add to this discussion I have a few questions:

 

Can roll steer be added to your system or is it strictly a zero bump design?

 

What parts of the design are modular and where else in the system can they be utilized?

 

How is the wheel base adjustable and how much adjustment is there?

 

Are the drop spindles required for a lowered ride height or will the RC's still be inside the window with OEM type of spindles if used with your system?

 

Will fatigue be an issue with your relocated damper due to the spring/damper force on what is primarily a cantilevered beam?

 

Can both radial mount and ear mount brake calipers be used or is it an either/or situation?

 

bpt

 

Q1: Can roll steer be added to your system or is it strictly a zero bump design?

A1: Yes. By shimming you can set up the roll steer you prefer

 

Q2: (2a)What parts of the design are modular and (2b)where else in the system can they be utilized?

A2: (2a)The whole design is modular; k-member, spindles, upper control arms, lower control arms, shock mounts, upper control arm mounts etc, etc, etc.

(2b) Not sure what you mean by "where else in the system can they be utilized?" Please elaborate.

 

Q3: How is the wheel base adjustable and how much adjustment is there?

A3: Our patent pending design allows the lower arm to be shifted forward and aft to meet the stock and AI wheelbase of Fox & SN-95 chassis. The upper arm is swapped from one side to the other to make the same adjustments.

 

Q4: Are the drop spindles required for a lowered ride height or will the RC's still be inside the window with OEM type of spindles if used with your system?

A4: Our system is not available for use with the stock spindles because the stock spindles were set up for struts not an SLA. Our system comes complete with the spindles.

 

Q5: Will fatigue be an issue with your relocated damper due to the spring/damper force on what is primarily a cantilevered beam?

A5: Fatigue can be an issue especially when you are talking about a race application and the appropriate measures to strengthen the potentially affected area(s) are not taken. The fatigue would be to the front of the frame rail if no support system is added just as you would have with the strut towers without the use of a strut tower brace in a race situation. As long as there is a good structure installed it is not an issue. Our controversial Boss 0770 Mustang was not completed for the SEMA show due to the fires in So. Cal which caused us to be evacuated the week before the show. There WILL be more structure added to the supports you see in the photos before we put the car on the track.

 

Q6: Can both radial mount and ear mount brake calipers be used or is it an either/or situation?

A6: Both. Our spindle is modular in design and the brake caliper mounts are replaceable. Our Boss 0770 has a caliper mount specifically meant for radial mount calipers while the display unit on our table at the show had a standard set up for a 94-2004 Mustang ear mount calipers which is the most common set up. If there is a need for a different set up it is easy for us to modify the design to accommodate virtually any rotor/ caliper combo available and produce just the mount itself.

 

JME1