Members Scott G. Posted January 20, 2008 Members Share Posted January 20, 2008 What are we? What is our emphasis? Are we really NASA Pro Racing? Is that what we are doing here? I don't race NASA "Pro", heck, I only barely race "Club"? None of my NASA racer buddies race "pro". Our website is NASAProRacing.com, what's with that? Maybe the SCCA guys have the right idea. Their decals proudly proclaim "Club Racing". So, what are we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getfast Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 NASA is an association, not a club. Therefore, NASA's organizational structure is much closer to that of a "pro" organization. In many ways NASA is like a Grand-Am or ALMS for the masses... In my opinion of course, Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scott G. Posted January 21, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 21, 2008 Ok, the "structure" of NASA may be more similar to pro racing, but what are we? Are we doing this because it's our job or are we doing it because it's our hobby/obsession? And if NASA's "for profit" nature is to be contrasted with SCCA's club nature, then I submit that makes us NASA's customers. Which would only make NASA all the more anxious to market itself in such a way that strikes the strongest chord with it's customer base. What represents us more accurately...a decal that says NASA Pro Racing, or a decal that could say perhaps NASA amateur racing. Anyone can put a NASCAR decal on their truck, but a NASA amateur racing decal would mean that you DO it, not WATCH it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getfast Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 (Very interesting discussion. And I'm not disagreeing, just discussing.) Ok, the "structure" of NASA may be more similar to pro racing, but what are we? Are we doing this because it's our job or are we doing it because it's our hobby/obsession? Most of the drivers in "pro" racing (of the sports car variety at least) don't do it as their job. A statistical majority of those deals are essentially rental arrangements by successful businesspeople or adventure-hungry heirs with deep pockets. So by that token, "pro" as it pertains to sports car racing doesn't necessarily mean "job." That's another way NASA is like pro racing; a high percentage of the participants are self-funded or sponsor-funded. And if NASA's "for profit" nature is to be contrasted with SCCA's club nature, then I submit that makes us NASA's customers. Which would only make NASA all the more anxious to market itself in such a way that strikes the strongest chord with it's customer base. We are absolutely NASA's customers. I have been one since 1998 and there's no other organization that does things better in my opinion. So your theory is that the sticker and url don't attract participants because they say "pro"? Tell that to the 3000+ members of the mid-atlantic region, who fill dozens of sanctioned NASA events a year in these parts, despite having plenty of other organizations to choose from. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scott G. Posted January 21, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 21, 2008 Jon, ok, my definition of "pro" may be simplistic. But I still submit that the word "pro" does not describe our community of amateur racers and HPDE participants. And it's not about "attracting". It's more abstract than that. It's a contention that NASA Pro Racing.....isn't. But it doesn't have to be abstract. If we could come up with a better marketing phrase, then we could lobby for it's use I suppose. Who knows, the folks in charge might think it's a great idea. If I had a choice between decals that said "Pro Racing", "Performance Driving" and "Amateur Racing", I know which one would come in last. The first implies "fan". The latter two imply "participant". Re. SCCA "Club Racing" doesn't work because we're not structurally a club. Well, ok, maybe cases could be made for both sides of that issue. But the beauty of the phrase "Club Racing" is it's implication of participation, not it's precise description of organizatonal structure. Other phrases could imply "participation" just as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasajj Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 .....cant we just go around the track really fast?.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerkat Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Maybe the Pro in NASA Pro Racing is like the Pro in Pro Choice. It just means that NASA is for racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scott G. Posted January 21, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 21, 2008 Maybe the Pro in NASA Pro Racing is like the Pro in Pro Choice. It just means that NASA is for racing. lol. Or maybe Pro is a reference to prostitute. It just means that NASA is for < >ing. Ok, so that's a stretch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STRINGER Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Well....I have to through in my 2 cents here... Unless I am wrong the NASA Stickers now say http://www.DRIVENASA.com instead of the old one that said Pro-Racing. Now, with that being said...the phrase NASA Pro Racing is probably left in place for the fact that this is what members know. I see the word "PRO" in ways a bit different then some. "PRO"moting safety "PRO"moting proper education "PRO"moting a family atmosphere "PRO"moting dreams There are many aspects beyond that. PRO Racing to me is defined by a driver and car racing for the ultimate goal of obtaining money and trophy's. Although the Sponsor and Contingencies that are associated with NASA that provide the payouts for regional and national events break down to a small amount to the drivers...they still provide a valuable purse to the drivers to help differ the cost of racing. If you want to try to define the term Pro in racing...who would you ask for clarification. Should the term Pro be based on the amount of money earned? Lets look at F1 for a moment. Each driver that races in F1 is a driver that has proved themselves on the track as a skilled driver. They are hand picked by the manufacturers and paid to perform on a certain level. Lets look at NASCAR, again....drivers are hand picked based on skill and talent. A common factor here is that a driver is hired based on skill and talent to drive a car for someone else whether it be a team owner or a sponsor. Ok lets take that into consideration and look at me. I am currently in the HPDE program to learn the "PRO"per way to drive and handle my car in a high performance manner. I have a sponsor that pays me yearly to drive my car with his name on it. Does that make me a "PRO" driver? Ok lets look at a driver that runs regional and national classes. Lets say they pay for everything and have no sponsors. At a regional and national level if they place and get trophies and money based on place finished. Does that make them a "PRO" driver? To me and I bet the greater part of humanity view the term "PRO" as relative. My personal thought is that if a driver is competing in a organized sanctioned event for awards and/or money they could be considered a "PRO" driver. And if NASA's "for profit" nature is to be contrasted with SCCA's club nature, then I submit that makes us NASA's customers. Which would only make NASA all the more anxious to market itself in such a way that strikes the strongest chord with it's customer base. Not real sure what your motives are on this post. It cost money to run an organization. If they didn't make any money I would bet they would not last for very long. I would be willing to bet that every sanctioning body of racing makes money. I could be wrong...but I doubt it. Again...just my 2 cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loudes13 Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 NASA may include club racing, but it is done professionally. The other club doesn't promote itself as when and doesn't give drivers the opportunities to promote them selfs. One example is the trophy presentation and photos. I can hand those photos to prospective sponsors (no matter how small). When I raced motorcycles, CCS and AMA had similar attitudes. Trophy podiums and girls. One advantage the motorcycle stuff had was a brief interview with the winning riders as they came off the track. NASA could start doing the same. With the other club, you just pick up your trophy and go home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scott G. Posted January 22, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 22, 2008 Well....I have to through in my 2 cents here... Not real sure what your motives are on this post. It cost money to run an organization. If they didn't make any money I would bet they would not last for very long. I would be willing to bet that every sanctioning body of racing makes money. I could be wrong...but I doubt it. Again...just my 2 cents I've no beef about money. I don't begrudge NASA making some bucks. Without profit motive we'd all be subsistance farmers scratching at the earth with sticks. Re. motivation. I didn't have any grand scheme or criticism. I was just thinking about putting a NASA decal on my daily driver the other day and it occured to me that the phrase "Pro racing" kinda implied "fan" to most folks. Whereas "Club racing" kinda implied participant. So I got to thinking, is "Pro racing" the most accurate way to describe what we do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getfast Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Not real sure what your motives are on this post. It cost money to run an organization. If they didn't make any money I would bet they would not last for very long. I would be willing to bet that every sanctioning body of racing makes money. I could be wrong...but I doubt it. Absolutely. As I have been saying for years... all successful (racing) ventures are profit-seeking, whether anyone gets paid or not. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STRINGER Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Re. motivation. I didn't have any grand scheme or criticism. I was just thinking about putting a NASA decal on my daily driver the other day and it occured to me that the phrase "Pro racing" kinda implied "fan" to most folks. Whereas "Club racing" kinda implied participant. So I got to thinking, is "Pro racing" the most accurate way to describe what we do? As I said in my last post. It is a personal interpretation of the term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getfast Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I was just thinking about putting a NASA decal on my daily driver the other day and it occured to me that the phrase "Pro racing" kinda implied "fan" to most folks. Whereas "Club racing" kinda implied participant. So I got to thinking, is "Pro racing" the most accurate way to describe what we do? FWIW, none of the current crop of NASA stickers say "pro racing" anymore (at least none that I've seen...) But I see your point and think this is a good discussion regardless. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom91ita Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 ....One example is the trophy presentation and photos. ..... Allen, you apparently were at some midwest oh/in events in a low attended class per: http://www.mylaps.com/results/newResults.jsp?id=643754&highlight=1 does TT give trophies for single class participation or just loan them for the photos? i was running H5 and by myself. at more than one event NASA handed me a trophy for the photo and asked for it back. since i was the only one in class, i did not "beat anyone" and was not eligible for a trophy. apparently just the picture with the loaner trophy. i even asked for just a winner "sticker" and was told no. i stopped going to the "awards" ceremonies. besides, they were rationing the pizza to one piece anyways. but major kudos to the Mad Brew folks! i even put their sticker on my daily driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasaregistrar Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 ....One example is the trophy presentation and photos. ..... Allen, you apparently were at some midwest oh/in events in a low attended class per: http://www.mylaps.com/results/newResults.jsp?id=643754&highlight=1 does TT give trophies for single class participation or just loan them for the photos? i was running H5 and by myself. at more than one event NASA handed me a trophy for the photo and asked for it back. since i was the only one in class, i did not "beat anyone" and was not eligible for a trophy. apparently just the picture with the loaner trophy. i even asked for just a winner "sticker" and was told no. i stopped going to the "awards" ceremonies. besides, they were rationing the pizza to one piece anyways. but major kudos to the Mad Brew folks! i even put their sticker on my daily driver. You need to come to one of our awards parties....definitely more than pizza and some cold, adult carbonated beverages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMan Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 i stopped going to the "awards" ceremonies. besides, they were rationing the pizza to one piece anyways. but major kudos to the Mad Brew folks! i even put their sticker on my daily driver. You are definitely at the wrong awards ceremonies, then. Try another region Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom91ita Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 i have decided to switch. from nasa to scca. i think that this is one of the places where the "for profit" club model falls apart. i was apparently seen as "overhead" with regards to being given a sticker or a second piece of pizza and not profit for my entry fees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodeoFlyer Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 i have decided to switch. from nasa to scca. i think that this is one of the places where the "for profit" club model falls apart. i was apparently seen as "overhead" with regards to being given a sticker or a second piece of pizza and not profit for my entry fees. Are you going to come back if they ration their tea and crumpets? You are likely to get more accomplished by speaking to your regional director than crying here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclricochet Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 i have decided to switch. from nasa to scca. i think that this is one of the places where the "for profit" club model falls apart. i was apparently seen as "overhead" with regards to being given a sticker or a second piece of pizza and not profit for my entry fees. Dude, if you are looking to go club racing with an organization that has "for profit" written on everything then SCCA is for you. I am not speaking bad about SCCA, I would like to drive FF or FA with with them eventually. But with SCCA Enterprises supplying the majority of the engines/ gear boxes you know they aren't selling them at cost. Find me a group that isn't for profit and I will show you people who are screwing you without telling you.... You are really looking into this the wrong way, it looks like you need to come see a NASA MA weekend. Plenty of fun and a healthy supply of quality H5 and H4 drivers. I hope you find a group that is more to your liking but NASA is a great place to start IMHO.... BTW Pro-Racing or Club Racing....who cares! I am having fun and I get to put cool stickers on my car. I don't care what they say. --Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STRINGER Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 i have decided to switch. from nasa to scca. i think that this is one of the places where the "for profit" club model falls apart. i was apparently seen as "overhead" with regards to being given a sticker or a second piece of pizza and not profit for my entry fees. I have run Mid Atlantic and Southeast regions. The awards dinner for both regions have been very impressive for the amount of food and beverages served. Each as I have seen has been an all you can eat and drink event. The mere fact that regions even provide such provisions free of charge to the driver should be considered a bonus. If you choose to leave NASA for SCCA based on issue's of food, beverages or a sticker...I wish you the best of luck with SCCA. I feel pretty confident that the entire NASA organization from the officials down to the spectator are treated with great respect. I know I have been. Every question and concern I have placed in the proper hands has been addressed with the highest respect. Again..just my 2 cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom91ita Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 .......You are likely to get more accomplished by speaking to your regional director than crying here. what you are seeing here is after comments and requests being sent to various NASA officials. this did not happen because i suddenly woke up in an anti-nasa mood one morning. i asked the question of a TT'er that had been at tracks in my area to see if his experience was the same as mine. someone offered that i should switch NASA regions. i am not going to drive further to go to other NASA regions when i can reduce my towing distances and go with the other club. there are differences between the two clubs, some good and some bad. for me and my chosen car/class, i am chosing to focus on scca. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scott G. Posted January 22, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 22, 2008 Ahh, no offense, but there's probably space for y'all to get your own thread. Can we get back on topic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STRINGER Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 yes....lets get back to topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian Bowles Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 yes....lets get back to topic. wait...what was the topic again?? Oh yeah.. if I'm a pro racer I should be making money now. But look at those shinny new wheels...ooooooooh I need those. How many of thoses shinny wheels can I get with this much moneys...lol.But really. what's in a name. I have run in both SCCA and NASA, and have been treated very well by both. You need to go with what works for you. But coming here and saying your switching. Your going to get flack. I run NASA because it's just so much smoother running here. But mostly cause, I like to promote racing and can and when tell my friends to it try out NASA wellcomes them with open arms. SCCA is not so friendly. As far as being PRO or Club? Does it really matter. We do what we do. You can call it kiddy car racing, I don't care. I just love the fact I can go out and run my car as fast as I can on a track for fun or for profit. Just as long as I driving on a track, I'm good.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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