EXCELLENT WORK, JOE PALUCH!

[Tim Comeau]

I just went to the new updated stuff on your page, Joe! Really nice.

It must have taken some time to compile all the best times of the drivers. Thanks a ton.

The driver listing now shows 58 cars in total. Incredible. Thanks again. You are good for this class.

 

That new total, with all the new names, really makes me want to work harder to get them all together at one event. The "Neutral Ground" event at PIR in September? Eric? I believe you were doing the liaison work on that project?

 

Seriously, It would be FAN-FRICKIN'-TASTIC to get all the cars together...........think about it.

[Spec-944#70]

I'll have the details after the next BoD meeting in July.

Could be fun!!! Should be easy to get 20+ cars at that one. So far I believe we'll just need race lic drivers - NASA,POC, PCA, TCRA whatever. The problem is if we can fall under the POC insurance binder or if we need to get our own? Would NASA be willing to sanction this event? Dan/Ryan? It could be real cool to have a ton of 944's out there!!

[944-Spec#94]

Thanks Tim,

I just saw another new Az driver (with "other group" of course) so I need to add him too.

 

I wanted to keep a list of all drivers in a attempt to prevent number duplication, but I can't enforce anything realted to what the other group does for numbers. Only nice thing is one of their guys know of my number list and what is therefore.

 

Anyway...

 

With respect to the POC event at PIR. Personally I think in order to have a CHANCE at getting partcipation from the "other az group" we need to keep NASA out of it. Reason is personal issues between the local Az NASA Director and the leadership of other other group. These in fact stem back to reasons for the split. Anyway. POC could be considered Neutral so best to work with them.

[Tim Comeau]

Eric, Yes, But that would kill the "neutrality" of the event. It can't be NASA or SCCA or PAS or ASRA. Just a big bunch of 944's running under a modified set of rules, specific to this event.

Edited July 1, 2004 by Guest

[Spec-944#70]

The way I understand it will be this. And I NEED confirmation from the BoD from POC first so don't get your hopes up too high yet!!

1. We can buy a run group for all 3 days Fri,Sat,Sun

2. We will fall under POC ins.

3. We can run any race lic drivers we want. (POC,NASA,TCRA, etc)

4. We can do what we want in the run groups. (practice 1&2, qual, race) on all 3 days if we choose.

5. We must police ourselves which means keep it clean as this will not be a points race. If we need to make 2 groups 944A and 944B to seperate the diffent cars then fine but I think we can all get along for 1 weekend!!

Keep your fingers crossed as this could be SUPER FUN!!!!

Just think if we could get 30 cars or more maybe. What a photo op TC!!! Joe this could become it's own page on your web site. "Largest gathering of 944's in a race enviroment!!"

I have to stop now as I'm getting goose bumps!!

[PeanutinCA]

Would would not still run our internal POC series points? Or this would take away 1 of the 4 remaining events? Meaning we must do 3 for 3 for the championship?

 

P.Dilly.

[Spec-944#70]

No Dilly you have to pay to run with POC also plus CR fee. I am!!!!! It's one of the 4 events and I'm doing all 4 barring mech breakdown or bankrupcy whichever comes first!!

[944-Spec#94]

Well Eric thanks for the effort. Keep us in the loop and you may want a drop a line direct to Joe S Spec-944 leader to gauge intereset.

 

My view of rules would be something like...

 

Drivers Licensing

Racing License from any of the following

POC, PCA, NASA, SCCA, TCRA, Pro Auto Sports,

 

Cars Need Logbooks (for Safety Compliance) from

POC, PCA, NASA, SCCA, TCRA, Pro Auto Sports

 

Car Prep Rules:

944-spec, Spec-944, or other 2.5L 8V NA prepped to the spirit of spec type 944 racing on a case by case basis (Contact Eric S for compliance)

 

Driving Rules (on track driver conduct):

Per Porsche Owners Club Racing Rules.

 

Weekend Format:

Friday = Testing 4 sessions

Sat & Sunday 2 practice 1 qual, 1 race

Races are for Exhibition and no points, prizes or trophies will be award. All cars will grouped and classified together.

[Spec-944#70]

Keep your fingers crossed and send me Joe's email or any others I need to speak to. Just the leaders and they can pass it on to their groups.

[PeanutinCA]

Just to add to Joe's response. Why not a race within the race? Have the 944-Spec and Spec-944 and then overall? How different are the cars? Enough to say that would group would be most definitely faster? Or are they fairly even? We would still have a large number of cars on the track, even if they were still running within their respective groups? Just like running with NASA or POC now, we run our own race/class, within the larger group.

 

Just a thought?

 

P.Dilly.

[944-Spec#94]

P Dilly,

I'd rather not bill this as a 944-spec vs spec-944 event. This is supposed to be unifying not an us vs them. This is not an attempt to say that one group is faster(drivers or cars) than another.

 

That said there are a number of cars that would be legal or could be legal for both groups so which do they choose.

 

I think the rules and cars are close enough that wil will run pretty much together on that track. Then togetherness and one big happy family.

 

Can I get a group hug....

 

Eric... I will send you a PM...

[PeanutinCA]

I didn't mean it as an us versus them. I meant that for some, we have a championship in POC and having been a part of the conversation with board members, there is the discussion of whether this would still be a POC points event? Therefore, we might not want to be put furhter down the points scale by drivers in cars that are not in the same class? But, that's based upon not knowing how different the other class rules allow the performance of cars to be? I couldn't give a rats butt who comes to play on the track, I don't see color, it's all one big happy family for all I care! I'll go the group hug, just no grabbing my a$$ OK!

 

No, seriously, it was simply for a series points consideration in POC. Not for any us versus them criteria. UNLESS, if by what Eric was saying, for us POC championship guys, if we pay the Cup fee and get to race the extra Cup Race within POC, that would work. But then there's the whole qualifying time thing?

 

P.Dilly.

[Trevor Myrus]

Joe I too looked at your website, Very well done.

 

Trevor

1988 944 #4

[Spec-944#70]

Dylan if you want to do the POC CR for the series you will need to enter the POC as a regular member. Full fee + CR fee. Then if you want to run this seperate run group (944 cars)you will need to pay for that also. It will be expensive but you will also get twice the track time!!

[PeanutinCA]

I can't afford that Eric. Can you? Doesn't make sense? POC want us to turn up and run the events, the POC events. But then are trying to sell us a group to help them out, but wont help us out by transferring the results to the series championship. Or let us run the cup race. Who does the entry fee go to if not them anyway? Why would we have to pay twice if we only ran the one set of sessions? I don't have the stamina or the car to run double sessions. Well, sorry guys but in that case I will be running the POC sessions and race. It's a pitty.

 

P.Dilly.

[Spec-944#70]

It's simple because the POC has it's own event at PIR. It's own run sessions and CR. They are selling a rungroup to the 944 guys. If you want to pay your share to run with them then thats fine. I will probably come up with the money just to be able to get some more track time to beat you on Sunday and be able to run with 20+ 944's and show the POC the numbers are there and they should let us all in. I may get a bit tired and not do all the run sessions but that will depend on how much RedBull I bring!! When the POC sells a run group to BMW they don't let them run in our CR as EX do they? Besides if you only run with the big group of 944's then the POC will loose out on your entry fee for them. You don't have to run with the 944's but we would like to have you there. Sell some blood or stuff on Ebay and do both with me. Hence my bankrupcy comment!!

[944-Spec#94]

Dylan...

Another way of looking at it.

 

Right now I only see you guys in R7 - No 944 class.

 

you guys are way behind in points and can't catch the leaders any way. Would you rather run for points in R7 with maybe 1 other 944 or run with 20 in our oun group?

 

If there is a 944 class by then. Want to win the 944 class with maybe on other car vs race with 20 other cars?

 

When it comes to POC money...

POC get their money anyway if run in the POC group or 944 group. If you have more races than everyone else then yes you will need to pay more.

 

Bottomline is this.

Would you rather race with 20 other 944's or race with bunch of tail dragger's just for a few worthless points anyway.

 

Personally I'd much rather race with a large group vs just a few. Sure if it was 5 944's in each group the go with the points race.

 

PS... If all you guys bail just for the few points POC has then we may not get our 20 cars!

[PeanutinCA]

I'm in bankruptcy denial already Mr. Sorensen. As for selling stuff, you have seen me on the street corner on the weekends?

 

I don't understand this. They sell a group to BMW, they don't run with us, because they are not in our series? Wouldn't make any sense to. Whether I run the big 944 group or the POC group, the money still goes to POC. How do they lose out? I guess I'm confused? If me entering the 944 group makes the group bigger, thus the appeal to OTHER 944'ers on the fringe thinking about it, wouldn't it make sense to accomodate that scenario? Seems kinda simple logic to me. Stick all the 944's together to help build more interest and thus entries. But allow the guys to carry points across to the championship where appropriate?

 

P.Dilly.

[944-Spec#94]

You could not gather R7 points if you did not run with R7 cars now could you.

 

What is really the point of 5 cars of the 20 car 944 group getting POC 944-class points?

 

That is why it is exhibition event.

 

What would happen if you have great fun race and got no points from it ...

 

Hmm sounds like PCA racing.

[Spec-944#70]

Joe you missed some things that happened in the POC. We are a Spec group now. R12 in race class. Just Spec 944's. The POC has 4 races left for the year and has allowed use to run for championship for those 4 races. PIR being one of them. That is why they would need to charged double Dilly. Don't say anything to the POC or on the POC BB untill we get the run group. After that you can ask if they'll maybe just let us do the POC qual and CR only - maybe for a reduced fee, but don't start anything yet!! Lets get our run group and then go from there.

Joe I have emailed JS and look forward to his reply.

This could be a made for TV movie!!! 944's day in the SUN!!!! No pesky 911's or Miatah's or Hondah's bothering us!!! Does life get any better than this?

[Tim Comeau]

Yeah, Dilly. If it helps make it clearer. We'll buy a run group from the POC, so we'll be a separate, second event. The POC needs to make a separate income for that second event. You'll need to pay 2 entry fees because you're entering 2 separate events, and getting twice the track time. You can't "transfer" points from the "fun group" event to the POC championship. Make sense?

 

I'd like to be able to afford both, but I see the Fun Group as more important for the future of the class. The big picture. That might mean throwing away the POC Championship for me, but so be it.

 

As previously stated, maybe we can get a lesser POC entry fee if we run with the POC only in the Cup Race on Sunday. That's only for those of us who are POC members running for the R12 championship. So that would be just $60.00 more. I like that idea. We're only using "their" track for the race, so let's offer to pay for the race only. Sign their waiver, too.

what do you think?

[PeanutinCA]

Eric, I've learned the oddities of POC. To be frank, at this point I couldn't give a rats butt what they do and don't intend to start anything. But lets not forget, had we not started with them in the first place, there would be no 944 Spec class. You have to push a little to get a common ground. Or the powers will only offer what is the easiest for them. For what do they care, they don't drive a 944. The point being though, as Joe asked is if it is deemed seperate, some people wont do it? I for one. Maybe I'm the only one? Maybe I'm not? Some people can't afford to pay twice. We have our own class, if everyone is running in the same sessions, then what does that matter if it's the Red group, the Orange group or the Blue group? That fact is, we would be all together? Plus, it would make the 944 group even bigger to tip the scales for people who may be on the fence? Just seems like "simple" and "smart" business to me? I don't get any extra sessions than anyone else, why pay twice? Unless I intended to run double sessions? But, hundred bucks says they don't schedule the groups to make your life easy in that department Eric, to run double sessions?

 

We got the class in POC, that's enough work for me. I'll work with them on increasing business if they work with us? That's all.

 

P.Dilly.

[Spec-944#70]

Tim that would be for the POC to decide. I don't want to get anything else till I get our run group. Then we can ask but lets get the run group first!! It would be awsome for the 944 guys if we can have a huge turn out. Maybe we can all sing around the campfire and be one big VERY happy racing group one day!! Everyone say AMEN!!!

This is our chance to have a complete, no other cars, event all to our little water pumper selves!! Can I have another AMEN racers!!

 

All for the good of 944's everywhere!!!

 

Tim you may want to get those rentals ready for the AZ guys who sold theor cars!! Paul B, Tyler, Jason?, etc!!! The more the very merrier!!!!

[Spec-944#70]

Dilly - The POC did give us our class. (Maybe not as fast as you wanted but they did) They also gave us a championship to run for. (We only have to do 3 of the 4 to be eligable plus service points and they cut those by 60% too!) There for they sell a run group to "x". make xx dollars on that minus the guys who would run with the POC. They loose a bit. If we are lucky they will LET us buy the race on Sunday but they don't have to make anymore consessions to us. Remember we fought hard to get where we are. The POC did not have to make a new class as we fit in R7 already. Granted we were not competitive in that group but that's not the POC's problem. The POC has allowed us to get our own group and now we need to show support and get more drivers POC licensed and show them we are real. I may not be able to run both sessions but I garantee you I will run in the POC CR and if I can afford it (and I will somehow) run the 944 run group too! I intend to go for the POC champ either way and do all 4 events left starting with Laguna in Aug. I'm sorry you feel so strong about this but it's life and the POC DID do us a favor and now WE have to put up or shut up!!

Since we will run Laguna, PIR, ThunderHill, and them BW it'll be expensive no matter how you draw it up.

TC is trying.

I will too!

Peace brothers,

[PeanutinCA]

I think you guys miss the bigger picture and my swing on it. I'm not upset, not pissy. I'm just saying, there is no rule that states, if POC sell us a group, we can't still run our R12 Cup Race. That's my point. We are a club, we can make the rules. That's why I don't see an issue? But, Tim's suggestion to pay the CR fee and do that race only was what I suggested earlier. But, that seems more an issue as, we are not qualifying in the same session as others, we have not "spent time" with the other drivers in the Orange group which is the POC theory. Get to know your other drivers. So, my point was to make it simple. We all run in the 944 group, but we allow the results to count towards the championship for the qualified POC members. Just doesn't seem all that hard at all? And until you show me the stated rules that say "we as a club" cannot do that, I'll continue to think it's a simple thing to do? Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to argue or fight at all. It's all love all the time. I'm just stating that it seems like a fairly simple prospect to me? Amen brothers, Amen.

 

P.Dilly.