New Member with Questions...

[PaganiZonda]

First of all, an introduction. My name is Jake Frazier, I'm 15 years old, and I live in North Missouri. I'm a big fan of road racing, particularly endurance racing. I make an effort every year to watch the Rolex 24 and the infamous 24 Hours of LeMans. Big Audi fan when it comes to the ALMS. I like NASCAR too, and I'm a Ryan Newman fan there. Super excited when he won the Daytona 500!

 

I've been looking and memorizing the NASA Endurance Racing Rule Book, and hoping to get a team up and going. Well, not that I already haven't. I have a roster of 9 people willing to help me on my racing team project so far. It'll be a few years before we get to racing, and another year until we start building the car. But I have started training my guys to become athletes, and know about the car and road racing itself. I run a 5'50 in the mile, and am starting to go alot faster. Two of my guys can run it in 6'45, and they're dropping time. The rest are making alot of progress, most starting at a 7'30. Bench presses are varied in weight, all over 110 lbs. though. Soon I'll be adding alot more people to the roster.

 

Questions:

1. The car will be a 1995 or so Subaru Impreza. 4WD with a 5 speed is what we're looking to build off of. We're aiming to drop alot of weight, add a few hundred pounds of downforce, and get about 420 hp with 350 ft.lbs. of torque. One of the higher touring classes for sure. Can anyone give me a picture of a similar car or an idea of what class that car would be in?

 

2. Are there any major training things I should put into the team to make it better? I have a track coach that has tought me alot and I use what I've learned on the team. But I'm wondering if there's anything I can do to get that extra out of them?

 

Thank you guys and I expect to be on the track with some of you in the next few years.

[kbrew8991]

that much horsepower, weight, and other modifications will likely have you looking at Super Touring (probably ST1) imo

[PaganiZonda]

Sounds really good, like a top performing class. So I'm making a top performing team.

[kbrew8991]

it can be pretty money-pit, but with a car built fairly well for the class it should be alot of fun

 

is the car already built to those specs you mentioned or are you working that direction with it? if its still somewhat stock or not too radically modified you may want to look at building it for a less expensive but still fun Peformance Touring class. You could add enough stuff each season or few months to "graduate" up the ladder towards that direction too if you wanted...

[RSCoupe]

One book for motorsport fitness is Fit for Motorsport, catchy title huh?

http://www.amazon.com/Fit-Motorsport-Performance-Physical-Training/dp/1859608760/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208215660&sr=8-1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

Sounds to me that the car you have envisioned for your endurance racer would be better for sprint racing or TT. For those HP and torque goals, it may be a little too high strung for long races, and potentially fragile, and high maintenance. The key to endurance racing is reliability. Spec Miatas, and E30 BMWs make fantastic endurance cars; cheap to run, and very reliable. It's also a good idea to start with a car that won't get you into trouble really quickly, which a high horsepower car will do.

 

Endurance racing is great "bang for your buck" racing, as you get a ton of track time for the entry fee.

 

But anyway, welcome, and hope to see you at future endurance events.

[PaganiZonda]

it can be pretty money-pit, but with a car built fairly well for the class it should be alot of fun

 

is the car already built to those specs you mentioned or are you working that direction with it? if its still somewhat stock or not too radically modified you may want to look at building it for a less expensive but still fun Peformance Touring class. You could add enough stuff each season or few months to "graduate" up the ladder towards that direction too if you wanted...

 

Well, the money probably won't be a problem, well, maybe only a little one if there is a loan taken out. The team was started last week and we already have $1,523 added from the team members who have jobs. It should be great.

 

The car is going to be built. We need to buy the car then build. But building it will be the funnest part of the whole team adventure.

[PaganiZonda]

One book for motorsport fitness is Fit for Motorsport, catchy title huh?

http://www.amazon.com/Fit-Motorsport-Performance-Physical-Training/dp/1859608760/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208215660&sr=8-1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

Sounds to me that the car you have envisioned for your endurance racer would be better for sprint racing or TT. For those HP and torque goals, it may be a little too high strung for long races, and potentially fragile, and high maintenance. The key to endurance racing is reliability. Spec Miatas, and E30 BMWs make fantastic endurance cars; cheap to run, and very reliable. It's also a good idea to start with a car that won't get you into trouble really quickly, which a high horsepower car will do.

 

Endurance racing is great "bang for your buck" racing, as you get a ton of track time for the entry fee.

 

But anyway, welcome, and hope to see you at future endurance events.

 

 

I might buy the book, it looks good.

 

On the car topic, I HAVE had building and tuning experience, and I study endurance racing closely. I'm going to teach the team to know the car and sport as well as I do, so I'm sure the car, once built, will be fairly reliable. And if there's problems, it's nothing we can't fix. (Usually.)

[RSCoupe]

...On the car topic, I HAVE had building and tuning experience, and I study endurance racing closely. I'm going to teach the team to know the car and sport as well as I do, so I'm sure the car, once built, will be fairly reliable. And if there's problems, it's nothing we can't fix. (Usually.)

 

How much driving experience do you have?

[PaganiZonda]

I have little racing experience, mainly ATV's and motorcycles. I've only raced karts once. I'll be taking my learner's permit test soon. I do have driving experience though.

[PaganiZonda]

How are these racing shoes? I've worn them before, and I like them, but can I use them in this type of racing? How does it compare to other shoes?

 

http://www.piloti.com/products/product_details.aspx?cat_id=3&prod_id=900&prod_sku=PR16-1

[kbrew8991]

I'd look at something with some fire resistant properties so you're not buying another set in a year or two when you've worked your way from HPDE to racing

 

(that seems to be a reoccurring trend here, starting at the bottom and working up from there....)

 

if you guys are starting with a bone-stock car, I'd do just enough mods to maximize whatever TT/PT class it starts in (probably D) and leave it there until you're winning some events, maybe capturing a regional title, and maybe even doing well nationally...

 

might even want to look at a low cost spec series (my current favorite is SpecE30). Nothing like a field of equal cars to show who is a fast driver (versus who is a fast driver with a big budget ) if you're really starting from absolute scratch. Most people are fielding quick cars for <$10k. Low operating costs too so you can spend your money to do events instead of replace transmissions, brakes after one event, etc like you might be looking at with an ST division WRX

[PaganiZonda]

Yeah, the car will probably be worked up over some years through the classes, GTS-1 is what we're aiming for though. I think with enough money here and there we can compete with some of the best.

 

Most of the members on my team have good paying jobs. I've been looking for a job for a month now because I had to quit for track and some school stuff (FFA). After track is done I'll find another job and start adding money to the fund. I add as much as I can even though I don't have a job currently.

 

Also, how about these shoes? They're a little more expensive, but will last longer. These I haven't worn...As you can see, I like Piloti.

 

http://www.piloti.com/products/product_details.aspx?cat_id=1&prod_id=1331&prod_sku=PRO17-1

[RSCoupe]

You might want to review the rules for GTS Challenge; it's for German manufacturers only.

[PaganiZonda]

Yeah, I just realized I got ST and GTS mixed up...

 

I saw a picture of an ST-1 car and thought it was pretty awesome...something I can look forward to building...

 

Now, in the rules I read, you can only change one wheel per pit stop in certain classes, right?

 

1. This doesn't apply to the ST classes, from what I've read...

2. Where did they get this idea? Do you know how dangerous riding around on three cord-showing tires and a good tire is? What if your tires are so bad that you lose control and cause a major pile up? And no one wants to make four stops to change tires! Why would they do such a thing?

[kbrew8991]

tires at the club level are alot more durable that the super-crazy sticky gumballs you see the pros on

 

ex: I get ~24 track hours out of my RA1s

[granracing]

One of the higher touring classes for sure.

 

I'm curious why you're ruling out so many of the great cars out there? Faster cars does not mean better drivers, infact I personally believe it can take more talent to drive a slow car fast than a fast car fast. Especially for someone who is very serious about this sport, you need to focus on what will make you a better overall racer. You also need to be realistic what it would cost to run such an expensive car at the front of a class - that's what you said you want, right?3

 

I think with enough money here and there we can compete with some of the best.

 

Not trying to be negative, but do want you to enter with realistic expectations. How much money do you think it would cost to be competitive with the best?

 

Car build including pro-built engine, expensive suspension, ECU tuning, boat loads of other areas.

 

I also wonder if you're going into this the wrong way. Of course we all want to be front running drivers, but don't lose site that this is supposed to be for fun.

 

Do you know how dangerous riding around on three cord-showing tires and a good tire is?

 

If you're trying to run up front, you'll be changing tires well before they ever start showing cords.

[jimgood]

Ahhh, to be 15 and full of pi$$ and vinegar again.

 

You should really read the NASA CCR first. Then read it again and again.

 

Buy a streetable car and go through the HPDE program. Focus on safety equipment as you go along; cage, seats, harness, fire suppression, etc. If you want to be a good driver, you'll need to be able to communicate how the car is behaving and how it responds to your inputs. When you can drive consistent laps, start trying different suspension mods, tires being first. After that, start working on the drive train.

 

Hopefully, you'll have the car in some raceable state when you're ready to go to Comp School. As long as it meets all the safety requirements and it will fit into a class (any class) go racing. Develop your skills and the car and move up as you go along.

 

It takes more than car control skills to be a good driver. If you rush into racing, you're going to miss out on a lot of learning that will put you in bad situations very quickly.

[PaganiZonda]

tires at the club level are alot more durable that the super-crazy sticky gumballs you see the pros on

 

ex: I get ~24 track hours out of my RA1s

 

I see now, the faster cars that wear tires more can do regular pit stops...

 

Tell me if I'm correct: It's pretty much the same as a LeMans pit stop. You fuel the car first (and make a driver change and clean the windshield/headlights if necessary). Once fueling is done, make the hydraulic jacks lift the car (Not quite sure yet how this is done. Is it an air compressor hose that goes into the car to lift it?), then change the tires. Two at a time, then let the car down, refire the car, drive off. Am I right?

[kbrew8991]

at the club level, you'd be surprised

 

here's me refueling a SpecE30 at the last 3hr that NASA-SE did at CMP (Kershaw, SC):

 

I don't think even the Grand Am team that was there had air jacks

 

you're competeing against JoeBlow Accountant, Billy McLawyer, and Timmy Buisnessman... not The GM Factory, etc, etc

Edited April 16, 2008 by Guest

[PaganiZonda]

Ahhh, to be 15 and full of pi$$ and vinegar again.

 

You should really read the NASA CCR first. Then read it again and again.

 

Buy a streetable car and go through the HPDE program. Focus on safety equipment as you go along; cage, seats, harness, fire suppression, etc. If you want to be a good driver, you'll need to be able to communicate how the car is behaving and how it responds to your inputs. When you can drive consistent laps, start trying different suspension mods, tires being first. After that, start working on the drive train.

 

Hopefully, you'll have the car in some raceable state when you're ready to go to Comp School. As long as it meets all the safety requirements and it will fit into a class (any class) go racing. Develop your skills and the car and move up as you go along.

 

It takes more than car control skills to be a good driver. If you rush into racing, you're going to miss out on a lot of learning that will put you in bad situations very quickly.

 

See, I've been thinking about starting small and working the car up through the ranks, adding power and dropping weight as we go along. All the while gaining more and more money to run the car at the same time.

 

Trust me though, I know alot about racing, and definately know to take car control and training seriously.

 

Thanks for everyone's help with this, I've figured out some minor things I would have never thought of though.

[PaganiZonda]

at the club level, you'd be surprised

 

I see what the rules are saying now... I read that part ten times over and still got confused onto what they mean. Probably because I've never heard it put as "hot pits" before. Not knowing what a hot pit was, I assumed it was a different variation of pitting where you could only change one tire. All other pit stops were the normal "full service" stops.

[PaganiZonda]

here's me refueling a SpecE30 at the last 3hr that NASA-SE did at CMP (Kershaw, SC):

 

I don't think even the Grand Am team that was there had air jacks

 

you're competeing against JoeBlow Accountant, Billy McLawyer, and Timmy Buisnessman... not The GM Factory, etc, etc

 

Of course you're racing average people, but I didn't actually think they used regular jacks and such. It's just so common now to see cars (even race cars with the same type of style of an ST) having hydraulic/air jacks.

[kbrew8991]

most people do short enduros with thier sprint race cars...

 

you might see airjacks at something like the 25hrs of Thunderhill, but outside of that I'd be surprised to see em... even on some guy's high dollar 997 GT3 Cup car or something

[PaganiZonda]

I'm thinking about adding them just to save time on every stop...and they're just cool.

[kbrew8991]

theres much lower hanging fruit, but its your money