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Proposed Rule Change - 911 GT3 Cup Car Dyno Requirement


ianacole

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In Florida we came close to pissing off all of our GT3 Porsche drivers. They now run in GTS U. My understanding is that their cars fall right in the middle of the GTS 5 range and since the motors are sealed I support the exemption.

 

Jay,

 

Why wouldn't they want to be dyno'd as a baseline. I just don't get it ? Please explain.

 

 

-Scott B.

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Dyno them. Makes no sense why not. Or how about this, don't dyno them, but if they finish top three in class roll over the scales and then over to the dyno. ...shouldn't have anything to hide, right?

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Why not make everyone follow the same rules. They can not have a cheating ECU that they drop in for the Nasa events?

 

Would they also be exempt from the dyno during impound.

 

This seems silly. Where is the real benefit. Who put this on the table. I need to get a GT3 Cup Car. What class do these cars end up in anyway. GTS5 ?

 

I have no problem with this rule as long as no car without a dyno sheet podiums.

 

You want a real rule? Have weight penalties for traction control and anti lock brakes.

 

Ed Baus

Porsche 911

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Oh, I think non dyno cars should be able to run. It can be GTS(whatever)x

 

(x for exhibition)

 

Is anyone actually on this forum with a GT3 Cup Car that would like to add to this discussion.

 

Jay, would you expand on your comment about pissing off all of the cup cars. How many are we talking about and didn't they read the rules before they showed up or am I missing something. Is there a concern beyond the sub-$100 for a dyno run. Is there a risk to the cars. Why do they not want to dyno.

 

Is this more about economics and letting a group in because they are complaining? Not criticizing, just asking. I do understand the Nasa financial end of things.

 

Still, I would think that they could change ecus and get more Hp. Of course I do not live in that world, so I do not know.

 

 

Ed Baus

Porsche 911

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I don't understand any of the basis for any discussion here. This is a power to weight series. So many of us are here because of the inherent fairness of the system and it works. WHY IS THIS EVEN BEING BROUGHT UP!!!!! This is the kind of crap that causes problems. If someone has an agenda then put it out for all to see. Other wise end this. This is GTS; power to weight!!!!

 

 

Mike

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Almost all if not all of the GT3 cup cars are kept, repaired, transported by one company. That company at this time has been against transporting this group of cars to a dyno facility. What started it all was the previous area GTS director who let them go without a dyno run. When I took over and wanted dyno runs they talked of not running with NASA. My thought process with them was that the motors are sealed at the factory and if the seal if broken than the factory warranty if voided. All competitors at that and this time keep and prepare their cars at one shop (keeps cheating if done to a minimum or at least possible equal).

 

They decided as a group to run in GTS U instead of GTS 5 since none of them had plans to go to the nationals. Tough to get a group of 5 to 8 cars (it may be more) to change. My feelings are that if they want to run as a group in GTS U then go for it. I and the Florida Region can't afford to lose racers. We don't have the fields of some of the other regions. We have lots of competition.

SCCA, PBOC; PCA, PBIR. Many weekends there are two events going in our region that split up the potential field.

 

That's the complete story.

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If you own a GT3 cup, you can afford to pay the shop to get the dyno done. I agree with Mike, this is a non-issue, they like all other cars need to be dynoed. Otherwise stick them into another series (SU?).

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I certainly don't disagree, but it was asked, therefore I put it out for discussion, which has weighed heavily to the "they get dyno'd" side.

 

Ian,

Where are these questions originating from??

 

I've had a couple of Cup car drivers in Texas ask about it and I would assume the question has come up in other regions as well. It isn't a conspiracy.

 

FWIW I think everyone should dyno, but I wouldn't mind having a catch-all class for a car that shows up without one.

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If you own a GT3 cup, you can afford to pay the shop to get the dyno done. I agree with Mike, this is a non-issue, they like all other cars need to be dynoed. Otherwise stick them into another series (SU?).

+1

 

They want to run in a series (GTS) that has only two parameters, weight and horsepower, and don't want to be measured on one of them? And, for that matter, you have a shop that's equipped to maintain 8-10 Cup cars that doesn't have a dyno?

 

Pleeeeease.

 

If they just can't find the staff to put the cars on a trailer and take them to a dyno, do it at the track. But, no dyno, no race.

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Ian,

 

I think the open discussion on these proposed rule changes is great, and gives everyone a chance to weigh in. That said, we're going in circles here. At what point do you make the call.

 

Brad

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One more comment to add to the debate. Let's remember the single most important reason most Porsche owners are racing NASA is the weight/Hp rule which is verified and prevents cheating as we've seen in PCA. My guess is many BMW owners are here for the same reason. What I know about business tells me, never mess with the most significant competitive advantage you have. In NASAs case, this is a huge competitive advantage and shouldn't be tinkered with.

 

Brad

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In a local region if they don't want to dyno and want to run in GTS-U that is fine with me. I don't see a problem there. I think GRS-u was gotten rid of on a national basis for what reason?

 

 

Mike

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I saw a bumper sticker once on a contractor's truck that said

 

"If it ain't broke, we'll fix it til it is"

 

That's what the rule proposals so far remind me of.

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Put them in GTS5 and wait until the go to Nats. They must Have a Dyno for nats. The only guys this really effects are a couple of BMW anyway. I know what the cars put out anyway. There are two Sealed trim motors the supercup and the Rolex. both fall within GTS-5 if they are running the world challenge trim the there are close to 500 hp but theat still puts them in GTS-5. The real issue is the 996 RSR which will break out. I really think you should adjust the rules a bit for guys like me and watts the run our cars in GTS-4 with slicks that put us close to 8.2 to one.

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In our region(s), if you don't get a dyno sheet, you're put in GTSU, and don't get any points (I did this last year). If they want to do that, it's fine with me.

I'd love to see a group of those cars running with us (but not against me).

Maybe if enough of them start showing up, and they want to run just against each other, create a GTS Cup class.

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Sorry.there.is.no.discussion.here. This is a power-to-weight ratio class. This is not a power-to-weight ratio unless dynoing is inconvenient or expensive for you class. So unless we want to change the underlying "must have a dyno" rule, that rule should stand. NO EXCEPTIONS

 

You know what it costs to run a GT3 Cup car? A freekin LOT! A car that costs $125k - $200k just to buy, then if you add in a pro-shop to arrive-and-drive, you cannot possibly complain about a $100 dyno run. Hell, we manage to get a dyno at the track every weekend, couldn't said shop bring one to their place? C'mon this is a pointless discussion.

 

Did guys really complain about dynoing or are we talking heresay?

Edited by Guest
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Most of these guys run with Nasa for practice... not for points... as a GTS5 car..... I say let them run GTSU or just let them run within the GTS rules/cars... they don't want or care about points.... if they want points, they need dyno if they want to race with me.

 

Fc

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Most of these guys run with Nasa for practice... not for points... as a GTS5 car..... I say let them run GTSU or just let them run within the GTS rules/cars... they don't want or care about points.... if they want points, they need dyno if they want to race with me.

 

Fc

 

Sorry, but letting them run in GTS5 for no points is crazy. There are racers with dynos running in that class who want points and contingency payouts. What happens if three GT3 cars show up with no dynos and take 1st, 2nd, and 3rd? Then the poor 914 guy, with the required dyno, who takes fourth place would get no contingency and 4th place points towards the season's point total.

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Why are we even having this discussion? Its so simple. If they want to run with no dyno, then bring back GTSU as a national class and let them run there. That's an unlimited class - which obviously renders dyno sheets irrelevant. If they want to run in GTS 1-5 then they need a dyno like everyone else. The day that someone with no dyno shows up in my class is the day that I start substituting PCA races for NASA races on my schedule.

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Guys-

 

Someone asked, we brought it up, you all have spoken. There is no "black helicopter" agenda on our part for these cars and it was just us trying to keep lines of communication open by soliciting your opinions about a request we received.

 

Keep 'em coming...

 

-JWL

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Our cars ARE dyno'd at the Porsche Motorsports facility in California, OR in Germany, when the seals are put on. The seals are not allowed to be put on unless the power is within the spec. The specs are easily found if you are interested, google is your friend. There is no way to get more power on these sealed engines. Seems like a waste to get them dyno'd again unless you are wondering if the car is running well.

 

I do want to dyno my '73 as I think that will fit well into your GTS3 class. I would have run at your NJMP event but it was too dark and rainy for the terrible tow through metro NY area to get down there.

 

Hope to run with you guys next year in one of my 911s.

 

 

Regards, mike [email protected] '73 911RS Clone, '08 GT3 Supercup

 

my racing pages - http://www.analogman.com/911

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