TT Classing?

[getfast]

No passengers allowed in TT (at least not in this region), but... yes.

[dbgeek]

No passengers allowed in TT (at least not in this region), but... yes.

 

Somehow, I think it would be therapy to take certain people for a ride. I just MIGHT choose that session to spin.

[dbgeek]

I noticed Anders is TTE @ summit - is the car not fully prepped yet?

[Scany]

I noticed Anders is TTE @ summit - is the car not fully prepped yet?

 

Are we supposedly too light? I haven't removed the sound deadening, and I got a passenger seat installed. Haven't put the car on scales yet either. Maybe I need to, and run a spare and full tank.

 

Are the NASA scales available on Fidays?

[VaTechM3]

Anders,

 

You'll be fine with getting the car to the proper weight. I'll have to pull out my classing sheets, but I had to run somewhere around 2995lbs. I was easily over the weight with spare tire and gas and did not have issues.

 

They should have all of that set up Friday afternoon, and for sure will have it up and running Saturday morning.

 

Good luck out there killer!

[getfast]

They should have all of that set up Friday afternoon, and for sure will have it up and running Saturday morning.

 

Scales usually only get set up on Fridays at the VIR 3-day events. At the Summit 2-day events, the tech guys are usually too busy on Friday evenings doing tech inspections. So for the upcoming weekend I wouldn't count on 'em until Saturday morning at the earliest. This could be an issue, since your TT classing paperwork is also due on Saturday morning...

[dbgeek]

So can we adjust class based on whether we make weight?

I have no clue what my car weighs, so I've signed up for TTD.

[getfast]

Can't change class on the fly, only prior to competition on each event day. TTD is the correct choice if you're not absolutely sure, with some declared weight that you know you'll be over. If the cars turn out to be TTE legal you (and Anders) can turn in new paperwork and run TTE on the second day.

 

It's entirely possible that the scales will be open early enough on Saturday that this is a non-issue, but I thought I'd bring it up just in case, better safe than sorry

[Scany]

To me it doesn't matter much and since I have little knowledge of the cars weight I guess I'll have to change to TTD.

[Scany]

Dont we need to add a point also for the missing cat?

 

So unless the car weighs 3087 or more we're in TTD the way I gather. I'm very tempted to get scales, but they are pricey. Someone know of any 1500lbs bathroom scales?

[VaTechM3]

I forgot about the exhaust! I was running stock exhaust and you might also be picking up a point for the headlight intake which I didn't have either.

 

I'd run it in TTD and pull out as much weight as you can. Mike D ran his car in TTD and was at some silly low weight IIRC.

[getfast]

Also Andrew didn't you not take the +4 points for the M3 front LCA's because you didn't (or don't) have 'em yet?

 

And, the x-brace is +3 for those who have it.

[dbgeek]

 

Anyways, new list...

 

Initial Assessment +14

Toyo RA-1 +7

225 tire width +1

Weight (3087-2900=187) +13

LSD +3

Modify intake +1

Exhaust +2

Non-OEM shocks +3

Non-OEM springs +2

Replace swaybars +2

Replace control arms +4

 

+52

 

Assuming Matt is on the ball (and corrected a few times ) and we are running 2900 comp weight, then:

x-brace +3

non-electric fan removal +1

remove cat +1

 

+57

[Scany]

 

Anyways, new list...

 

Initial Assessment +14

Toyo RA-1 +7

225 tire width +1

Weight (3087-2900=187) +13

LSD +3

Modify intake +1

Exhaust +2

Non-OEM shocks +3

Non-OEM springs +2

Replace swaybars +2

Replace control arms +4

 

+52

 

Assuming Matt is on the ball (and corrected a few times ) and we are running 2900 comp weight, then:

x-brace +3

non-electric fan removal +1

remove cat +1

 

+57

 

With the x-brace (which I had not got in my calcs) I got the same number minus the fan which I have installed at the moment. Seems to be hard to get a Spec3 into TTE. I'm just going to be happy to be doing any TT

[Jon M.]

From the Summit results thus far this season (April and June), it would appear that a Spec 3 car can win in TTD. The times seem to be in the 1:29-1:33 range.

 

Best of luck.

[getfast]

Not to discount the statement that a Spec3 can win TTD, which is certainly possible, but I'd say it depends on who comes out. I can think of several theoretical top-of-TTD cars with the right mods and a good driver that should do 27's or better. We just haven't seen 'em yet

[VaTechM3]

Jon,

 

You are correct, I didn't swap in the M3 control arms so I didn't have to take points for that. That gave me a little more wiggle room.

 

Jon,

 

Haven't we put times down in the 1.28s? I'll have to go back and check my data, but I thought there were a few of us that were able to put a few down in that time, but mine might have been in the mid to high 1.28s.

 

Regardless, Anders, you have the right attitude! Just go out and have fun and get experience with being passed/passing without a point by. It is a ton of fun!

[dbgeek]

... get experience with being passed/passing without a point by. It is a ton of fun!

 

Even the instructor group has some rolling chicanes that don't like to point. This WILL be fun

 

It would appear that my stock WING also gets me +4 for a total of 61. I'll have to knock 2 off with a comp weight of 2918, which can be reached with a spare tire if needed.

[Jon M.]

Haven't we put times down in the 1.28s?

 

 

Yes, the Spec 3 lap record for Summit was recorded this April at 1:28.221

 

These cars are definitely capable of 1:27.0, but it will take some time to get there.

[VaTechM3]

Haven't we put times down in the 1.28s?

 

 

Yes, the Spec 3 lap record for Summit was recorded this April at 1:28.221

 

These cars are definitely capable of 1:27.0, but it will take some time to get there.

 

Agreed! It is definitely in there, just gotta find it is the tricky part

[Scany]

I sent Sean a PM reg. class change, but haven't heard back. Is he the one? Or is it enough to write the correct class on the sheet?

[Jon M.]

I sent Sean a PM reg. class change, but haven't heard back. Is he the one? Or is it enough to write the correct class on the sheet?

 

Send him an email, he usually responds within a day. His email is listed on the NASA-MA site.

[matt325]

 

Anyways, new list...

 

Initial Assessment +14

Toyo RA-1 +7

225 tire width +1

Weight (3087-2900=187) +13

LSD +3

Modify intake +1

Exhaust +2

Non-OEM shocks +3

Non-OEM springs +2

Replace swaybars +2

Replace control arms +4

 

+52

 

Assuming Matt is on the ball (and corrected a few times ) and we are running 2900 comp weight, then:

x-brace +3

non-electric fan removal +1

remove cat +1

 

+57

 

Minor update for 2011:

 

Aftermarket computer system (i.e Spec3 chip): +3

 

+60 <-- TTC!!

 

So one would need to declare a 2915 lb minimum weight to stay TTD.

 

My headlight intake is not hooked up (too much of a pain), but I am not sure if just having it in (serving no function) counts for a +1 under C. Engine - Item 4 (mod to...hood/fascia/fender air inlets).

 

I really don't like the +4 for our control arms. That is a lot of points for a non-performance advantage component in our case. Not sure what the TT rules mean by "significant improvement in...longevity, or reliability" What qualifies as significant?

[Jon M.]

Maybe just buy a junkyard headlight and swap it in to avoid that issue. You can even gut the internals of that headlight so that it is lighted to swap in and out.

[TurboShortBus]

Minor update for 2011:

 

Aftermarket computer system (i.e Spec3 chip): +3

This is how I know that people don't actually read the TT rules...

 

Regarding this item, refer to the list of "No-Points Modifications" that are listed in the TT rules. I won't tell you specifically where to look, though.

 

Also, if you declare your minimum competition weight to be 2902 lbs, then your points for section B will be reduced to +12 for -185 lbs. Read this carefully:

If the base weight used for base classing purposes (above in 6.3.2) minus minimum competition

weight (with driver*) is greater than: 5 lbs +1, 20 lbs +2, 35 lbs +3, 50 lbs +4, 65 lbs +5, 80 lbs

+6, 95 lbs +7, 110 lbs +8, 125 lbs +9, 140 lbs +10, 155 lbs +11, 170 lbs +12, 185 lbs +13...

Note the use of "greater than."

 

My headlight intake is not hooked up (too much of a pain), but I am not sure if just having it in (serving no function) counts for a +1 under C. Engine - Item 4 (mod to...hood/fascia/fender air inlets).

Correct; +1 per C4. Greg G. will tell you, "If it's not an advantage, then why is it on the car?"

 

I really don't like the +4 for our control arms. That is a lot of points for a non-performance advantage component in our case. Not sure what the TT rules mean by "significant improvement in...longevity, or reliability" What qualifies as significant?

See my quote from Greg G. above. In TT, you can run any control arms for those +4 points per E9, whether they are stock arms from an M3 or something custom-fabricated by AKG. Also, those +4 points cover both the front and the rear, so if you do one end of the car, you might as well do the other end, as the points have been spent. Also, modifying your OEM control arms will receive the same points assessment, as outlined here: http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=38342

 

So, spend those points carefully!

 

It is difficult to assign a TT class to cars in many of the "spec" classes, since many of those classes are not truly "spec." There are many rules that say "Part A may be used" or "Part B is permitted," rather than "Part A shall be used" or "Part B is required." This gives the owner/driver the option to use or not use many parts within the "spec" class, but in TT, the use of these parts will accrue points.

 

Mark