brkntrxn Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Time Trial Directors – I have a couple of suggestions, take it or leave it, on cool down laps and mechanical issues. Cool down laps Prior to each event, can some agreement or direction be made about where competitors in the Time Trial classes begin their cool down after running hard laps? For instance, at VIR the most logical thing to do is to continue to run somewhat hard until you get to Oak Tree. Then you can come off pace and use the back straight to get out of everyone’s way. Same thing at Road Atlanta. That allows for plenty of cool down on your car as well as keeps you out of everyone’s way in the first half of the track where it is the tightest (eg Snake and Esses). At several events over the past year, myself and others have had hot laps ruined by people running a cool down lap in an area that does not allow easy passing. I myself committed this “sin” in the very beginning, but it was due to not knowing the best places to back off and get out of everyone’s way. Some forethought and suggestion would go a long way to educating the newbies and reminding the oldies. Mechanical Issues Can it be communicated to competitors that if they have a mechanical issue they should either a) Get off the track, or b) Go slow enough that the corner workers cover them with a white flag, or c) Go fast enough that they do not get in the way? Running 60mph in areas where speeds are in excess of 100mph while staying on line is dangerous. Couple that with the fact that if you are running 60mph and staying on line, the corner workers are more than likely not going to cover you with a white flag. Therefore, there is NO warning to an approaching driver that you are way off pace. I can give an exact example from a recent event if needed. I am not complaining, I handled my own issue with the other driver immediately after the session in which it occurred. My intent is to offer a suggested communication that may help to avoid similar instances in the future. -Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 We've had this discussion at one of our download meetings at a recent event. IMO just to have the drivers aware is the biggest thing, just because you're on a cool down lap doesnt mean you cant get back into the gas if you know someone is going to catch you in a bad spot, and have guys not doing this.... http://www.youtube.com/user/jetswu87?blend=21&ob=5#p/u/6/nq4gz2y0Hrk As for the mechanicals again boils down to driver awareness, at VIR there are plenty of places to get off the track. Our group in MA is pretty good as a whole with communication which i think is the biggest help with any of these types of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 IMO just to have the drivers aware is the biggest thing, just because you're on a cool down lap doesnt mean you cant get back into the gas if you know someone is going to catch you in a bad spot, and have guys not doing this.... http://www.youtube.com/user/jetswu87?blend=21&ob=5#p/u/6/nq4gz2y0Hrk Agreed; driver and situational awareness are the biggest factors. There is nothing wrong with giving a point-by if you are on a cool-down lap, and drivers on a cool-down should be aware that all other cars around them could very well be on flying laps. I'm not sure if there is an official way that we can say, "Use your head and don't be a jerk," though. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_Eclipse9916 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 We've had this discussion at one of our download meetings at a recent event. IMO just to have the drivers aware is the biggest thing, just because you're on a cool down lap doesnt mean you cant get back into the gas if you know someone is going to catch you in a bad spot, and have guys not doing this.... http://www.youtube.com/user/jetswu87?blend=21&ob=5#p/u/6/nq4gz2y0Hrk As for the mechanicals again boils down to driver awareness, at VIR there are plenty of places to get off the track. Our group in MA is pretty good as a whole with communication which i think is the biggest help with any of these types of things. Dont mean to be a jerk to that guy, but he is ALWAYS in the freaking way and not paying attention. Im pretty sure thats considered his flyer lap too Ive had more than a few laps ruined by him. I will be approaching him if he ever does it to me again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 This all goes back to "ban Mustangs" in another thread. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 "ban Mustangs" It's good to see the TT community working together and finding common ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awdracer Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 (edited) http://www.youtube.com/user/jetswu87?blend=21&ob=5#p/u/6/nq4gz2y0Hrk Vinny, that wasn't a cool down lap for ummmm..... "That guy". Any way, no amount of rules tweaks will be as effective as talking at meetings and agreeing that you won't hold each other up. Think about it. The thread starter suggested that a guy with a broken car simply pull off. Well, that's going to create (at least) a local yellow and probably an EV on track which will slow you down more than the guy limping back to the pits. The rules are adequate. There is no perfect world. The only variable at play is the consideration that you get from other drivers. And sometimes things just work against you. Check this out. I'm at VIR in a NASA PTE race. I started third and I spent most of the race in 1st or second. I got passed late by the car that won nationals but I'm about to fight back and attack.... and watch what happens near the end. (24:40 mark) My whole race got shanghai'd by the last place SM that goes off in Southbend and insists on rejoining at speed. Thanks, man. Edited October 17, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 As for the mechanicals again boils down to driver awareness, at VIR there are plenty of places to get off the track. Our group in MA is pretty good as a whole with communication which i think is the biggest help with any of these types of things. LOL, it was a Mid-A event most recently when it happened to me. There are a couple of SUR cars that believe that when they are done, so is everyone else. -Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 I'm not sure if there is an official way that we can say, "Use your head and don't be a jerk," though. Mark Sure you can, say it just like you typed it above. I am just asking for everyone to get a "refresher" speech the morning of the event. -Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 About my mustang video, i assumed he was on a cool down being how fast i was catching him that lap...or else i probably wouldnt of went on the inside of T10....but after he passed me and then pitted in on that same lap i was.....uhhhh angry. Kevin, Sorry to hear you had that issue, 90% of the time those guys will literally come to a 10mph roll to stay off an apex for me to pass...at least in my experiences. I do agree maybe a refresher isn't a bad idea but as Scott said it's not just this group....Racers, DE guys, TT all have their problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awdracer Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I do agree maybe a refresher isn't a bad idea but as Scott said it's not just this group....Racers, DE guys, TT all have their problems. Vinny, you instruct. What is the #1 topic of EVERY Sunday morning driver's meeting? It's the same thing. Yes, it's groundhog day. The problem is that the person in front often does not see himself like the person behind him does. The guy in front is thinking "I'm faster" and the guy behind is thinking "if he were faster I wouldn't be here". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 hahaa so true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Think about it. The thread starter suggested that a guy with a broken car simply pull off. Well, that's going to create (at least) a local yellow and probably an EV on track which will slow you down more than the guy limping back to the pits. somewhat valid, but, I can also think of at least a couple good spots at every track I've ever been to where you can place the car far enough off that you won't get a local yellow for that section, even if EV is getting there to pull you off. And in most cases if you're there EV is going to wait until the end of the session to pull you in anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awdracer Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 And in most cases if you're there EV is going to wait until the end of the session to pull you in anyway... MA does hot pulls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 About my mustang video, i assumed he was on a cool down being how fast i was catching him that lap...or else i probably wouldnt of went on the inside of T10....but after he passed me and then pitted in on that same lap i was.....uhhhh angry. Whoever that was, has zero situational awareness or big picture concept of what TT is all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 Think about it. The thread starter suggested that a guy with a broken car simply pull off. Well, that's going to create (at least) a local yellow and probably an EV on track which will slow you down more than the guy limping back to the pits. I disagree. If you have a mechanical, there are plenty of places at most tracks in which you can pull off and not incur a local yellow nor alter anyone's laps. Case in point, Saturday morning I came out of Hogpen, slapped the rev limiter in my Z06 and the car went into limp mode. The best I could do was 1700rpms in 4th gear. I was far enough ahead that no one caught me until between T2-3 and I stayed WAY right. The next bunch of cars caught me at the bridge straight and again I stayed WAY right. In my mirror, I could tell that a bunch of cars were going to catch me in the Uphill Esses. So I took a hard right and went up the hill on the North Course cross-over. Some EV guys were working the Patriot Course gate and they let me through. I drove in my mirrors, got out of the way of everyone AND got off the course ASAP. I was DQed for the session even though I had put down some decent laps, but that was better than screwing up the laps of five people. I never suggested someone pull off into the grass and stay next to the track. At almost all of the tracks I run, there are areas in which you can pull off and not affect anyone. Nor cause a local yellow. -Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awdracer Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Think about it. The thread starter suggested that a guy with a broken car simply pull off. Well, that's going to create (at least) a local yellow and probably an EV on track which will slow you down more than the guy limping back to the pits. I disagree. If you have a mechanical, there are plenty of places at most tracks in which you can pull off and not incur a local yellow nor alter anyone's laps. Case in point, Saturday morning I came out of Hogpen, slapped the rev limiter in my Z06 and the car went into limp mode. The best I could do was 1700rpms in 4th gear. I was far enough ahead that no one caught me until between T2-3 and I stayed WAY right. The next bunch of cars caught me at the bridge straight and again I stayed WAY right. In my mirror, I could tell that a bunch of cars were going to catch me in the Uphill Esses. So I took a hard right and went up the hill on the North Course cross-over. Some EV guys were working the Patriot Course gate and they let me through. I drove in my mirrors, got out of the way of everyone AND got off the course ASAP. I was DQed for the session even though I had put down some decent laps, but that was better than screwing up the laps of five people. I never suggested someone pull off into the grass and stay next to the track. At almost all of the tracks I run, there are areas in which you can pull off and not affect anyone. Nor cause a local yellow. -Kevin Yes, but it appears that you exhibited strong situational awareness and consideration for other drivers...which is commendable. Do you expect to get that back from other drivers every time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I was DQed for the session even though I had put down some decent laps, but that was better than screwing up the laps of five people. if you have a legit mechanical that cause you to go off course, doesn't your time still count? didn't greg go over DQ's at nats because of that (ie, you either said I threw it off, or I had a legit mechanical?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 And in most cases if you're there EV is going to wait until the end of the session to pull you in anyway... MA does hot pulls. so do alot of regions, but not EVERY pull is a hot pull. Esp if the car is well out of the way I was DQed for the session even though I had put down some decent laps, but that was better than screwing up the laps of five people. if you have a legit mechanical that cause you to go off course, doesn't your time still count? didn't greg go over DQ's at nats because of that (ie, you either said I threw it off, or I had a legit mechanical?) legitimate mechanicals do not incur a DQ - rule was applied incorrectly in this case it seems. Maybe there was some other factor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperkins Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I was DQed for the session, but that was better than screwing up the laps of five people. Or risking killing them. Yes, but it appears that you exhibited strong situational awareness and consideration for other drivers...which is commendable. Do you expect to get that back from other drivers every time? Yes. Yes I do. I suggest that any TT driver can be demoted to HPDE after a certain number of legitimate video supported infractions that are reported by other drivers as wreckless/careless or DQ sessions for "offs". Heck the same should be for racers as well. Many see TT as glorified HPDE. I've never understood that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Many see TT as glorified HPDE. I've never understood that. The biggest disconnect for TT in the "whole path to w2w" is when you go from TT to W2W, NASA W2W doesn't use the TT format for qualifying. TT is really it's own little island (it's nothing like HPDE 4 or w2w). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 TT should be required for comp school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 and I think W2W qualifying should be ran just like TT (warm up sets the grid, qualy session rolls runs an in lap, runs onto the hot lap at speed under formation) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperkins Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 TT should be required for comp school. Absolutely. and I think W2W qualifying should be ran just like TT (warm up sets the grid, qualy session rolls runs an in lap, runs onto the hot lap at speed under formation) Absolutely again. The "free for all" method is a bit odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 Yes, but it appears that you exhibited strong situational awareness and consideration for other drivers...which is commendable. Do you expect to get that back from other drivers every time? You're d@mn right I do. If you can't be fully aware of the situation, you shouldn't be running TTs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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