drivinhardz06 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 My car has current 2013 July tag, plates, registration slip, and full coverage. Still a street car. I have run errands in it just to shake something down occasionally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 My car has current 2013 July tag, plates, registration slip, and full coverage. Still a street car. I have run errands in it just to shake something down occasionally I have all the same stuff but just don't have the inspection sticker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWI Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I have all the same stuff but just don't have the inspection sticker The county inspection office does not pay contingency, so Mark does not run their sticker You don't live in the country like Mark does. I bet I could get my Panoz tagged in Jackson county. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I have all the same stuff but just don't have the inspection sticker You don't live in the country like Mark does. I bet I could get my Panoz tagged in Jackson county Reminds me of an experience in college. Roommate has an old POS '92 Explorer we called "The Beast". We were out in the western part of Virginia at a buddy's parents house. Explorer owner decides to get an inspection out there because buddy says he could get him the hook up. Go to some deliverance style shop and roommate asks the shop proprietor for an inspection. Proprietor takes a look at "The Beast" and, in a nearly unintelligible backwoods dialect, replies, "Son you don't need an inspection, you need a sticker". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Where are you guys coming up with $10k for aero??? I know that I can come up with a good (not great and top of the line) but definatly good set-up for between $2k and $3k not including install. Yeah there's going to be some tuning to get the suspension dialed in again but $10k seems a little out there to me - I guess if you take it to a shop and have them install the best stuff around and get it dialed in you could hit that number but $10k seems high to me, it can be done for much less especially if you don't mind doing some of the work yourself. Just sayin I do think that the aero is worth it at most tracks. Coil-over's are much easier to test and tune with (you have a much better selection of springs to choose from and to set them up properly it takes less time to swap them out). Yes the RAFT cars make leafs work but unless you are taking it to Danny don't think you will get the same results they do. Both leafs and coils work can/will work well but I find coils much easier to work with. Joel, We met at Nationals and I have a ton of respect for you and your results, but I disagree with you on this. For the typical person that does not turn wrenches nor own a shop, podium-worthy aero is close to $10,000. Figure $4000-$5000 for an installed wing and functional splitter, add in another $1000 for a louvered hood and laying the radiator forward, add in another $2500 for single-adjustable coilovers and install. You are now at $8500 without ever testing the setup. Give it another $700 for a test and tune day where you pay someone to come along who knows how to adjust all your widgets. Now add a new set of stickers on top of that because you ruined all of your scrubs testing and tuning. Bingo, you are right at $10,000. You can spend less by getting used parts, but you could also spend more by getting triple-adjustable, fancy-smancy coilovers. -Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushinTheLimit Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) I'm with Kevin on this one. I was looking at doing all the aero setup on my car and had quite a few of the parts before punting on the idea. Wing was $1500, used front bumper with new ACP splitter $500, Carbon Fiber vented hood $750, Carbon Fiber undertray $300 and that was getting used stuff. But then I had to work on those said parts to custom fit them to my car which was no cost, but time consuming. Then I was going to buy some new adjustable shocks anywhere from $1500 to $4000 since what I had wouldn't be optimal for the aero I was adding. Then if you needed big brakes, you're looking at a good $2000 or more for calipers... but then my 17" wheels won't clear the brakes. Sell 3 sets of CCW Classics but need 2-3 sets of new 18" wheels so there's another $2000 to $3000. Won't take long before you're looking at $10,000 in aero, brakes and wheels and that's not even starting on the gearbox. Edit: And I knew ST wasn't a cheap class to get in. That's why I had considered prepping my car back to PTA so I wouldn't have to spend so much just to be competitive on the track. I'm glad I didn't now since the class is going away but at least still having a class for a non-aero vette to play in is a good thing. A top PTA prepped vette is much cheaper than a top prepped ST3 vette will be whenever someone hits on that. Edited October 9, 2012 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 there hasn't been a ruleset written that can truly contain costs... but there are some that can at least somewhat limit the effectiveness / gains / etc of spending crazy $$$$. ST just isn't one of those. Not a bad thing so long as you know it going in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Not a bad thing so long as you know it going in... I think what some are arguing was that they KNEW that going in, but didn't (now don't) have a choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 there hasn't been a ruleset written that can truly contain costs... but there are some that can at least somewhat limit the effectiveness / gains / etc of spending crazy $$$$. ST just isn't one of those. Not a bad thing so long as you know it going in... Ken, Performance Touring ruleset does a darn fine job of limiting costs. Wish I still had that option without selling my car and getting another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 there hasn't been a ruleset written that can truly contain costs... but there are some that can at least somewhat limit the effectiveness / gains / etc of spending crazy $$$$. ST just isn't one of those. Not a bad thing so long as you know it going in... Ken, Performance Touring ruleset does a darn fine job of limiting costs. Wish I still had that option without selling my car and getting another. Exactly my point it was great when you guys did have the option of staying small in PT, or going big in ST. The guys that chose ST to start with just don't get it, probably never will... can't see the forest for the piles of money in their way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vettedoctor Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I'm with Kevin on this one. I was looking at doing all the aero setup on my car and had quite a few of the parts before punting on the idea. Wing was $1500, used front bumper with new ACP splitter $500, Carbon Fiber vented hood $750, Carbon Fiber undertray $300 and that was getting used stuff. But then I had to work on those said parts to custom fit them to my car which was no cost, but time consuming. Then I was going to buy some new adjustable shocks anywhere from $1500 to $4000 since what I had wouldn't be optimal for the aero I was adding. Then if you needed big brakes, you're looking at a good $2000 or more for calipers... but then my 17" wheels won't clear the brakes. Sell 3 sets of CCW Classics but need 2-3 sets of new 18" wheels so there's another $2000 to $3000. Won't take long before you're looking at $10,000 in aero, brakes and wheels and that's not even starting on the gearbox. Edit: And I knew ST wasn't a cheap class to get in. That's why I had considered prepping my car back to PTA so I wouldn't have to spend so much just to be competitive on the track. I'm glad I didn't now since the class is going away but at least still having a class for a non-aero vette to play in is a good thing. A top PTA prepped vette is much cheaper than a top prepped ST3 vette will be whenever someone hits on that. I was just talking about the aero costing $10k, not a full ST build. Michael further backs up my figures because he found all of the aero pieces for right around $3000. I know what it takes to build an all-out ST car and aero isn't the most expensive part. I've worked on a couple of current T1 cars that have double adjustable Penskes and some good looking BBK's but the reason they don't want to run with NASA is because they don't have aero - really is that what's holding them back? As you can see from above you can get the aero pieces for a lot less than $10k especially if you can do the work yourself, not everyone can and obviously that's going to cost more. Kevin, I can see both sides of the coin yes aero can be expensive but it also can be done more resonable. I just want people to know that there are options out there that don't cost $10k, because if people read that they are going to say no f'ing way am I going to run ST! Not if aero costs $10k, brakes cost me $5k, suspension costs me $5k, trans and diff run me $7k and a motor costs me $15k. Sure they can but they don't have to. I think I could take Rory's PTA car and turn it into a good (no great but good) ST3 car for between $5k and $7k (he already has a BBK and plenty of 18x10.5's). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJM Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I just want people to know that there are options out there that don't cost $10k REAL aero is going to cost $10-15k. You can cobble something together for less, but an aero setup developed in a wind tunnel will beat you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bnjmn Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I just want people to know that there are options out there that don't cost $10k REAL aero is going to cost $10-15k. You can cobble something together for less, but an aero setup developed in a wind tunnel will beat you. Ok, you have made this point like 10-15k times. This is not news. We have all been operating under various rule sets where someone might be racing with better parts. Drivers still matter and NASA still has yet to award a trophy for bench racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obzezzed350 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I just want people to know that there are options out there that don't cost $10k REAL aero is going to cost $10-15k. You can cobble something together for less, but an aero setup developed in a wind tunnel will beat you. Ok, you have made this point like 10-15k times. This is not news. We have all been operating under various rule sets where someone might be racing with better parts. Drivers still matter and NASA still has yet to award a trophy for bench racing. Bingo....give it a rest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 NASA still has yet to award a trophy for bench racing. maybe that'll be the next new class that gets added - you never know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 NASA still has yet to award a trophy for bench racing. maybe that'll be the next new class that gets added - you never know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I need to make a reality show of this stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted October 9, 2012 National Staff Share Posted October 9, 2012 NASA still has yet to award a trophy for bench racing. maybe that'll be the next new class that gets added - you never know! That is the best idea you have had in a long time! We will call it "Bench Spec" and the class letters will be 'BS'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKETODRIVE Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 NASA still has yet to award a trophy for bench racing. maybe that'll be the next new class that gets added - you never know! That is the best idea you have had in a long time! We will call it "Bench Spec" and the class letters will be 'BS'. In for PTE/BS next year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balroks Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 NASA still has yet to award a trophy for bench racing. maybe that'll be the next new class that gets added - you never know! That is the best idea you have had in a long time! We will call it "Bench Spec" and the class letters will be 'BS'. +1 for bs ROFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 NASA still has yet to award a trophy for bench racing. maybe that'll be the next new class that gets added - you never know! That is the best idea you have had in a long time! We will call it "Bench Spec" and the class letters will be 'BS'. No problem filling this class is my thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I like it Greg!!! Joel, I cannot disagree with you on that one that things can be found cheaper. And the reality is that I have a $400 COT Wing from a NASCAR team as well as an ACP splitter for $300 and a piece of 10mm Diabond for $120 all sitting at home in my garage. They have been there for almost this entire year. The aero setup on Morris' car was my idea for my car. I could have "aero" bits installed by this weekend if I really wanted. Would they give me a downforce advantage over my current setup? Probably, but not as much as someone with deep pockets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I like it Greg!!! Joel, I cannot disagree with you on that one that things can be found cheaper. And the reality is that I have a $400 COT Wing from a NASCAR team as well as an ACP splitter for $300 and a piece of 10mm Diabond for $120 all sitting at home in my garage. They have been there for almost this entire year. The aero setup on Morris' car was my idea for my car. I could have "aero" bits installed by this weekend if I really wanted. Would they give me a downforce advantage over my current setup? Probably, but not as much as someone with deep pockets. Any part of a car can be exploited by "deep pockets." Blue printed LS6 engines. LS7's with a torque curve that looks like a tree stump. A ZR1 transmission. "Deep Pockets" are always a part of racing as much as yellow flags and trophy girls. We can't isolate "deep pockets" to just aero. It's prevalent everywhere in racing. Every part of a race car can be further refined with money, i.e. high dollar shocks, etc. BTW, the COT wing was one of the most studied & tested wings anywhere. And we all know an ACP splitter is tested and tried. So your setup would be pretty doggone good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I like it Greg!!! Joel, I cannot disagree with you on that one that things can be found cheaper. And the reality is that I have a $400 COT Wing from a NASCAR team as well as an ACP splitter for $300 and a piece of 10mm Diabond for $120 all sitting at home in my garage. They have been there for almost this entire year. The aero setup on Morris' car was my idea for my car. I could have "aero" bits installed by this weekend if I really wanted. Would they give me a downforce advantage over my current setup? Probably, but not as much as someone with deep pockets. Any part of a car can be exploited by "deep pockets." Blue printed LS6 engines. LS7's with a torque curve that looks like a tree stump. A ZR1 transmission. "Deep Pockets" are always a part of racing as much as yellow flags and trophy girls. We can't isolate "deep pockets" to just aero. It's prevalent everywhere in racing. Every part of a race car can be further refined with money, i.e. high dollar shocks, etc. BTW, the COT wing was one of the most studied & tested wings anywhere. And we all know an ACP splitter is tested and tried. So your setup would be pretty doggone good. The COT wing is perfect for a COT and does ok on other cars. I have a good idea how much is spent on the top C5/6 aero cars. It is not cheap and not done easily by weekend warriors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I like it Greg!!! Joel, I cannot disagree with you on that one that things can be found cheaper. And the reality is that I have a $400 COT Wing from a NASCAR team as well as an ACP splitter for $300 and a piece of 10mm Diabond for $120 all sitting at home in my garage. They have been there for almost this entire year. The aero setup on Morris' car was my idea for my car. I could have "aero" bits installed by this weekend if I really wanted. Would they give me a downforce advantage over my current setup? Probably, but not as much as someone with deep pockets. Any part of a car can be exploited by "deep pockets." Blue printed LS6 engines. LS7's with a torque curve that looks like a tree stump. A ZR1 transmission. "Deep Pockets" are always a part of racing as much as yellow flags and trophy girls. We can't isolate "deep pockets" to just aero. It's prevalent everywhere in racing. Every part of a race car can be further refined with money, i.e. high dollar shocks, etc. BTW, the COT wing was one of the most studied & tested wings anywhere. And we all know an ACP splitter is tested and tried. So your setup would be pretty doggone good. The COT wing is perfect for a COT and does ok on other cars. I have a good idea how much is spent on the top C5/6 aero cars. It is not cheap and not done easily by weekend warriors. How many C5 or C6 top aero cars are there in NASA? There's not but a handful I'd put in that category, and the vast majority of the rest of us have just regular aero. I don't know of any specific wing made for a C5 Z, so we have to install a wing that is a compromise, and learn to tweak that for optimum, but not perfect, operation. That's the point I was making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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