Newbie Tips: Boss 302 engine/tran mods?

[darreng505]

Hi,

I have a 2012 boss 302 I am targeting for AI/X. Still working my way through the NASA ranks so I got time before this happens.

 

Wanted to see what other boss mustang drivers out there are running for engine mods (power adders?) and drivetrain/trans

that is competitive in AI or AIX?

 

I was going to add the Boss 302R transmission, aluminum single-piece driveshaft, mcleod RXT clutch and some kind of power adder.

Are these decent mods to start? Or not really?

 

Thanks!

[99cobra2881]

Once you install a power adder, AIX is your only choice.

 

AI rules are N/A only.

[robbodleimages]

not really. boss 302 is an ai car restricted and an st2 car unrestricted. superchargers dont hold up to road course driving as a rule, much less racing and the power you would get would only get you between st2 and real aix cars. aix is an unlimited class. to be competitive you will need a lot more car than a jazzed up street car.

 

there are very few real aix cars. do your research before you jump in with both feet.

 

are you in DE right now?

[darreng505]

@99cobra2881

 

Yeah. I got that part. Thanks!

 

Was curious what power adders bosses in AIX are currently using. I still might go through AI first (sans adder), but wanted to plan out my build and see what people found competitive in AIX using the boss platform.

 

@robbodleimages

 

yes, I am in DE still and probably two full more seasons away from competitive AI/AIX entry. Doing my research now as to which class the boss will be competitive. It's not as light or nimble maybe, as other AI cars, so I'm curious what mods make it competitive in AIX. Definitely gonna "ease" into these waters and not dive in! Thanks for any tips now.

 

I was gonna spec the 302R trans and maybe the hellion twin-turbo adder running 900+hp for AIX. But I've heard different feeback on the hellion kits. Wondering what others are using.

[robbodleimages]

to my knowledge no one with a boss runs aix at anything more than st2 power. nobody runs a power adder. buy a roush yates nascar cup motor. and lots of carbon fiber body work.

 

and a better life insurance policy

[darreng505]

to my knowledge no one with a boss runs aix at anything more than st2 power. nobody runs a power adder. buy a roush yates nascar cup motor. and lots of carbon fiber body work.

 

and a better life insurance policy

 

Thanks for the tip. Can you tell me what "anything more than st2 power" means? I know ST2 is super touring, but not sure what "st2 power" means.

From what you said if they don't use power adders then they must be running the stock 444hp boss motor?

 

Sorry for the noob questions.

[robbodleimages]

thats correct. there are numerous Boss 302S models racing in nasa on a regular basis and a handful of cars built to that spec. i am not familiar with anyone racing a modified boss engine. its really not necessary. restrict the motor for ai or let it run unrestricted in st2 and its a reliable and long lasting engine package. thats where all the mustangs are racing.

 

griswold may have a supercharger on his motor. i dont know.

 

racing is often more about the competition on the track than big hp numbers anyway.

[99cobra2881]

I dont know much about Grizwolds car either just bits that Ive read about on here and in random articles about the car.

 

For AIX you'll need a turbo motor, big hair driers turned up to about 800 rwhp, capable of 1000 rwhp.

 

AIX is an arms race with very few restrictions.

 

Just for comparison at the '11 NASA Nat. Championship at Mid-O Chris Griswold was running lap times comparable to what Grand Am Daytona Prototypes turn!! Thats in a 99-04 body style mustang!!

[darreng505]

I dont know much about Grizwolds car either just bits that Ive read about on here and in random articles about the car.

 

For AIX you'll need a turbo motor, big hair driers turned up to about 800 rwhp, capable of 1000 rwhp.

 

AIX is an arms race with very few restrictions.

 

Just for comparison at the '11 NASA Nat. Championship at Mid-O Chris Griswold was running lap times comparable to what Grand Am Daytona Prototypes turn!! Thats in a 99-04 body style mustang!!

 

That's what I kind of figured. And I bet his tires/rims were key to that. Damn, he was running DP times?! Well, I look at it this way. Everyone man out there wins with 3 things. 1) Skill 2) Car 3) Luck. I can get 1 & 2 knocked out. Not sure about 3 though...

 

btw. I was thinking of adding the Hellion Twin Turbo kit for the boss motor to get north of 800rwhp, but its been dyno'd at over 1200. Yes, its a death rocket...but I think if I took a bone stock 444hp boss into AIX, it would get lapped before it finished lap 1. Right?

[99cobra2881]

If it was my car I would do just like Rob mentioned already. Restrict it to AI power or go race in ST2.

 

Focus on aero mods, get the World Challenge package from Tiger Racing* and enjoy a very capable race car.

 

*(Thats if the company is going to continue building mustang parts with the recent passing of Paul Brown.)

[darreng505]

If it was my car I would do just like Rob mentioned already. Restrict it to AI power or go race in ST2.

 

Focus on aero mods, get the World Challenge package from Tiger Racing* and enjoy a very capable race car.

 

*(Thats if the company is going to continue building mustang parts with the recent passing of Paul Brown.)

 

So basically, stay away from AIX is what I'm hearing?

 

I sure hope Tiger Racing/Kenny Brown continue to sell performance parts. Especially now...

[robbodleimages]

not to knock aix, but why are you so set on doing that? 900whp? thats more than a nascar cup car makes. at the nationals there were 3 cars in that class. in nasa se there is maybe one aix car that comes occasionally. the rest of the cars are basically st2 level or less.

 

we have a good race often but none of us would be competitive at the national level. my car makes 380whp.

 

you also need to realize that the faster you go the easier it is for the car to bite you, both crashing and breaking. and....the faster you go the deeper the bite when it happens.

 

aix needs the cars, but i think our resident god of mustangs would tell you that if you want to race aix that you are in the wrong platform with a boss 302. is it a street boss you want to race? if yes and you want to make it a competitive aix car, you wont have much left from the original car but the unibody.

[Grizlbits]

Rob,

 

I disagree. HP is cheap these days. I built my AIX car for $75,000. How much is a new boss mustang racer from the factory, $70,000+? Putting on a turbo system, big tires, big brakes, and stripping the car is not that hard. I see WAY more work going into many AI cars. Look at Al Hartmans car, beautiful amount of aero, but a lot of work.

 

Take an AI car, put a turbo in it (10-20k), big wheels (3k more than AI wheels for 3 sets), 14" brakes (about the same cost), 4 speed transmission from a nascar team (same cost as an AI car transmission), a 9 inch rear end (2K). Most everything else is the same for an AIX car as an AI car (wing, safty equipment, coolers, ignition system, etc). Voila. You now have a competative AIX car, just add capable driver.

 

Talk to Paul's Automotive for the turbo system. He did mine and has a proven track record about making it work well. Another option is to add a rebuilt used Nascar motor instead of the turbo (ala Mike Stacy). The Nascar will have similar power for cheaper initial cost. Rebuilds may cost more and may be more frequent.

[robbodleimages]

this is sort of my point. if you have a boss 302, a full blown aix car is probably not the correct path. start cheaper and get a roush/yates drive train, some aero, some lexan, some carbon fiber, some safety, some big wheels, some ford racing suspension and you have a car.

 

if you have a street boss, the drive train comes out, the aero changes, the glass changes, the body panels change, the wheels change, the suspension and dampers change and so on.

 

stacy's car is a good example.

[2010 mustang]

Just for comparison at the '11 NASA Nat. Championship at Mid-O Chris Griswold was running lap times comparable to what Grand Am Daytona Prototypes turn!! Thats in a 99-04 body style mustang!!

 

The fastest AIX trim time at Mid-Ohio was this year at a 1:25.0 by Paul Faessler, and horsepower was south of 750whp. Daytona prototypes ran 1:18.0s at Mid-Ohio this year. So a long shot away from those cars.

[99cobra2881]

I could've sworn I read somewhere that their lap times in '11 were comparable to each other.

 

Could've been top end speeds at Road America that I was thinking of though.

[Grizlbits]

My 1:26 at mid o was on older tires. If Paul and I are in the same race it will be very even. Mid o is not a power track like Road America. I ran a 2.12 at ra, but the prototypes are 1:50 ish I think.

[darreng505]

Rob,

 

I disagree. HP is cheap these days. I built my AIX car for $75,000. How much is a new boss mustang racer from the factory, $70,000+? Putting on a turbo system, big tires, big brakes, and stripping the car is not that hard. I see WAY more work going into many AI cars. Look at Al Hartmans car, beautiful amount of aero, but a lot of work.

 

...

 

Yes!!! I agree with this. I understand all the swap outs I have to do and I have 2 seasons to do this. I already have done a lot to improve the car through DE. It's a pedigree racer at its heart anyway. I will draw on the 302R/S for parts as well. Take my time. Learn. So far, I upgraded suspension, brakes. Work's great.

 

After the trans/drivetrain upgrade (only $6000 if I go T56 Magnum rated at 700lb/ft of torque, or more with full on 302R trans) I can easily add the Hellion Twin Turbo system for around $8k and have a real contending platform. Of course, many upgrades are needed (e.g. strong coil-overs, etc). This is part of the fun!

 

But I might still go through AI first (if possible. for experience), then AIX. But I'm very thankful for the tips and suggestions. It's a difficult path, I know.

[darreng505]

start cheaper and get a roush/yates drive train, some aero, some lexan, some carbon fiber, some safety, some big wheels, some ford racing suspension and you have a car.

 

stacy's car is a good example.

 

I hear you, but I got the cash to do this. I'm "All in." So I thought, why start small, throw it away and go big? So I will target big and move in stages to get there. I think the Boss 302 is a great platform. Paul won the WC '11 championship in one after all.

[Micks 41]

In what region will you run?

 

Keep in mind that the original cost to upgrade horsepower will have a direct and adverse cost in maintenance.

[darreng505]

In what region will you run?

 

Keep in mind that the original cost to upgrade horsepower will have a direct and adverse cost in maintenance.

 

Mid-Atlantic. Yeah, I understand about the inverse relation between HP boosters and maintenance, lifespan, etc.

Appreciate the heads up on that because its something to really prepare for before the first breakdown.

[UBR]

I'll advocate for building an AI car too. I came through the HPDE program and just completed my first season in AI. Horsepower is lots of fun, but it covers mistakes and bad habits. You don't have to learn how to drive well and be smooth when you have a lot of HP to "point and shoot" yourself out of trouble. And HPDE will not make you to drive well. It will teach you the basics. Lots of seat time applying the basics will make you drive well. Jumping straight into big HP never forces you to learn smooth momentum driving. Honestly, going straight to AI, like I did, is probably too much HP for a rookie to develop the best skills. AI level power makes it easy to recover from sloppy driving. AIX level power for someone straight out of HPDE (with no other racing background) is just an ego trip.

 

j

[darreng505]

I'll advocate for building an AI car too. I came through the HPDE program and just completed my first season in AI. Horsepower is lots of fun, but it covers mistakes and bad habits. You don't have to learn how to drive well and be smooth when you have a lot of HP to "point and shoot" yourself out of trouble. And HPDE will not make you to drive well. It will teach you the basics. Lots of seat time applying the basics will make you drive well. Jumping straight into big HP never forces you to learn smooth momentum driving. Honestly, going straight to AI, like I did, is probably too much HP for a rookie to develop the best skills. AI level power makes it easy to recover from sloppy driving. AIX level power for someone straight out of HPDE (with no other racing background) is just an ego trip.

 

j

 

Good advice. I'm giving myself 3 full HPDE seasons (including this one) to get the technique's down. This is my first season and I'm already lapping my field. My car is big on HP too already and your point about masking bad habits is a great piece of wisdom. Another 2 seasons to sort out the car mods needed for AI or AIX and some time to decide on that. Perhaps AI then AIX. Just planning now, waaaay out from actually doing it.

[UBR]

I did HPDE for 3 seasons in our team's AI car before moving to AI this season. I have been racing something since I was 15, but never road racing. (and I'm more than 3 decades away from 15 now) I was also one of the fastest cars on track in HPDE too. I had a pretty successful first race season this year. 6 out of 10 poles, 4 wins in 10 races, a track record at Hastings and finished 11th of 22 AI cars at Nationals. (Brake issues all week kept me out of a top 10) I wish I would have done HPDE in a Spec Miata with a bunch of other Spec Miatas or faster cars. I still have a lot to learn about racing and general car control.

 

I'll say it again, horsepower is a lot of fun, but if you are serious about really learning how to drive (not race) well, I would detune the Mustang so you were a mid pack car and work your butt off to catch and pass people.

 

We raced along side Chris Griswold and his AIX beasts for 4 years. In addition to his dominating 1000+ HP, 200 mph, 15 year old Mustang, he also raced a Spec Miata. He said it was more fun racing and being challenged by 10 slow, very equal cars that it was lapping the entire field.

 

Just something to think about.

 

j

[Micks 41]

Rob,

 

I disagree. HP is cheap these days. I built my AIX car for $75,000. How much is a new boss mustang racer from the factory, $70,000+? Putting on a turbo system, big tires, big brakes, and stripping the car is not that hard. I see WAY more work going into many AI cars. Look at Al Hartmans car, beautiful amount of aero, but a lot of work.

 

...

 

Yes!!! I agree with this. I understand all the swap outs I have to do and I have 2 seasons to do this. I already have done a lot to improve the car through DE. It's a pedigree racer at its heart anyway. I will draw on the 302R/S for parts as well. Take my time. Learn. So far, I upgraded suspension, brakes. Work's great.

 

After the trans/drivetrain upgrade (only $6000 if I go T56 Magnum rated at 700lb/ft of torque, or more with full on 302R trans) I can easily add the Hellion Twin Turbo system for around $8k and have a real contending platform. Of course, many upgrades are needed (e.g. strong coil-overs, etc). This is part of the fun!

 

But I might still go through AI first (if possible. for experience), then AIX. But I'm very thankful for the tips and suggestions. It's a difficult path, I know.

 

If you are serious about campaigning in AIX, do it. If you want to do it right, I HIGHLY suggest you talk to Paul Faessler at Paul's Automotive Engineering located in Cincinnati, Ohio (513-791-ten eighty seven). As several people will attest, he's by far the leading authority on road raced turbo mustangs. His knowledge and skill will give you the best chance on having a successful venture in AIX.