JSG1901 Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 NEW RULE PROPOSAL Proposed change Require FIA-FT3 fuel cells in all GTS cars (actually, all NASA race cars). Reason The fire in the GTS class says it all. Everyone else requires them, why not NASA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14901490 Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I dont think everyone else requires fuel cells not BMW CCA, not PCA, not SCCA . While i understand the safety advantage - you will lose a lot of cars - $$ . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandeman Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Um, not a correct statement about "everyone". ie: SCCA - 9.3.27. FUEL CELL SPECIFICATIONS All cars must be equipped with a safety fuel cell complying with these specifications, except for Showroom Stock, Touring, Spec Miata, Improved Touring, production-based Vintage cars, or as otherwise specified in the GCR. or from the Super Touring SCCA rules - I. Fluid Piping & Fuel Tank 1. Fuel Cells/Tanks- The use of a fuel cell is required unless the stock fuel tank is located between the axle centerlines and within the main chassis structure (i.e., frame rails, etc.) . . . Most organizations require fuel cells if the factory fuel tank is NOT between the axles. Not in favor of ALL cars - just cars where the fuel tank is vulnerable to impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flink Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I know basically zero about fuel tank safety, and have a question. On the e36 and e46 the stock tank is in a nice safe position between the axles. Most (all?) fuel cell conversions move the tank to a less safe position under the truck. Fuel cells can still rupture and cause a large fire if they take a big enough hit, yes? So. Is a fuel cell under the trunk actually safer than a stock tank under the rear passenger seat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbm3 Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Not necessary. One freak accident does not dictate a sweeping change and cost to the racers. They are NOT required by every other sanctioning body, at least here in the US. -Scott B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcdesign Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Let NASA cover this in the GCR, this is not a rule that needs to be specific for GTS. -Tony Colicchio GTS-3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FandangoDrew Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I agree with Scott and Tony; I say NO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobuffs Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 I have a cell...if I could go back in time, I wouldn't do it again. I'd say no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Graber Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimG005 Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 My tank is between the axles, and I'm not convinced anything else is safer....vote no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikew968 Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 no...there really isnt a good tank option for the 944/968 series of cars and $$$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolocontendere Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 OPPOSED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doclouns Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Everyone else requires them, why not NASA? Absolutely incorrect. I vote NO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBeck Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 I vote no! I like my tank where it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmwjoon Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Personally I never have an issue with a rule that increases the safety of the sport but it has to be somewhat practical. I would be strongly opposed to making all cars require a fuel cell. I think in some applications a fuel cell would be necessary but not all and if a rule was written it should have a consideration for that. Also I don't think this has to be a NASA CCR thing either. If we in GTS want to have safer cars than required then we should have rules that do exactly that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPower6er Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 I vote NO on this; As I understand it, the cost options would be unfair to the Porsche car drivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winefool Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Clearly a NASA CCR issue and not a GTS issue. Opposed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTL Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 No here. I even have a cell. Old Porsche 911s have front mounted tanks low in the chassis, where a lot of impacts occur, and this rule change would encourage a lot of people to go to the cheapest compliant cell they can buy and potentially install it in a less protected location. This is similar to the BMW scenario where the tank ends up higher in the chassis and exposed to harm in the relatively "soft" trunk area.. Another thing to consider is how the entry level cell entails a custom installation. Custom often = questionable installation which also results in a less safe fuel tank than the factory tank. If the 944 platform has an Achilles heel back there, then that vehicle should be looked at specifically as to how it can be improved (shielding, additional substructure, ban from the series (kidding of course) etc.) and not throw a blanket over the entire GTS class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icemang17 Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 No on this one.....most factory tanks are very well designed for CRASHES.....especially our german cars that were designed to run on the autobahn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhicks Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Smith Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamflex Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 NO!!! Absolutely not needed, this rule if passed would dramatically decrease car counts nation wide. I know I would not race in the series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corr Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 NO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS154 Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Um, not a correct statement about "everyone". ie: SCCA - 9.3.27. FUEL CELL SPECIFICATIONS All cars must be equipped with a safety fuel cell complying with these specifications, except for Showroom Stock, Touring, Spec Miata, Improved Touring, production-based Vintage cars, or as otherwise specified in the GCR. or from the Super Touring SCCA rules - I. Fluid Piping & Fuel Tank 1. Fuel Cells/Tanks- The use of a fuel cell is required unless the stock fuel tank is located between the axle centerlines and within the main chassis structure (i.e., frame rails, etc.) . . . Most organizations require fuel cells if the factory fuel tank is NOT between the axles. Not in favor of ALL cars - just cars where the fuel tank is vulnerable to impact. I concur. If my vote counts - I would vote for exactly as above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosspoole Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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