Glenn Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 well anyone cheating in this series is only cheating themselves. none of us will become famous from this or rich from this. pretty pathetic to cheat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsim Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 MW, pic please of Lundberg with Jennifer Aniston's foot in one hand and coffee mug in the other hand. Thx, jb Why ask Mitch? There's no cat in that pic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Well done. I pass the sceptor of malcontent to you, Sir Brad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony G Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Oh no, I can't even imagine that we would have Mitch and Brad in a picture battle, please say its not so Tony Guaglione Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffburch Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Pan the shot down for the cat Very Nice jb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j dawes Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 So here's another thing to throw in the kitty pot: I drive an S197. I've had it since 12/2006 and the throttle response is horrid. Check any mustang forum for complaints/solutions. When I had an SCT tune, the throttle response was perfect. Since this is a drive by wire system [and some sort of traction control and the car has a tire pressure monitoring system that cannot be turned off] what are the folks who are building S197s for CMC [ok so nobody is...yet!] to do concerning these issues if they cannot tune these problems out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j dawes Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Anybody? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug1548534725 Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Nobody's doing anything. According to the response I get when I try ask about new cars, nobody in their right mind would race a late model car, and there's no need to talk about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Schotz Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 They're CMC2 cars running on the west coast... haven't heard any issues with them racing them on the stock tunes. So far... there is no ECU tuning in CMC... so that would be no adjustment for Traction Control (A button on the S197 Cars) and Drive By Wire, is just what it is... plenty of S197's & Corvettes have been raced without tuning... Don't confuse this message for lack of support... I'm all for opening up ECU's... but today... it just isn't the case. Peace, Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 The day is coming ... it's inevitable. There are so many series out there working with it instead of against it, I don;t get why not embrace the change now, with all the other changes in the near term. Make the leap into the 21st century and get it over with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j dawes Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 My intent is to build an S197 for CMC2 using a salvage/wrecked donor. In my experience with my car, the drive by wire has been nothing but a nightmare. Sh!tty throttle response and the inability to rev-match due to whatever stock tuning the car came with from the factory. Maybe mine's just screwed up but I'd eliminate both the traction control and the drive by wire if I could. That's just me. Time will tell where this all goes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug1548534725 Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 Can you really eliminate the throttle-by-wire, or do you just change the computer to have your pedal directly drive the throttle without any smarts being applied? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j dawes Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 Can you really eliminate the throttle-by-wire, or do you just change the computer to have your pedal directly drive the throttle without any smarts being applied? Honestly I don't know. There is a way to 'massage' the brush leads that engage the throttle to get a better response when you hit the throttle, but as for eliminating it altogether I am not electronically savvy enough to know. Basically you take the gas pedal assembly apart, use very fine needle nose pliers, and carefully bend the brush leads so they are closer to the 'sweet spot' where the throttle actually engages. Info available on mustangforums.com with pictures, fwiw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted August 17, 2008 Members Share Posted August 17, 2008 I would imagine deleting the throttle by wire would be a big giant PITA. I'm sure someone has gone and done that, and replaced the FI with a good ol' carb too The problem is not throttle by wire in and of itself. The problem is the programming by which it is controlled. In the case of the s197, there is a "throttle response committee" between you and the butterfly, and the committee has its own agenda. You merely make suggestions to them, and after a while they generally initiate changes to throttle in the general direction you intended... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j dawes Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 I would imagine deleting the throttle by wire would be a big giant PITA. I'm sure someone has gone and done that, and replaced the FI with a good ol' carb too Really? Or you're joking? ... In the case of the s197, there is a "throttle response committee" between you and the butterfly, and the committee has its own agenda. You merely make suggestions to them, and after a while they generally initiate changes to throttle in the general direction you intended... EXACTLY! That's certainly the way it feels when I drive mine. Again, with an SCT X-Cal II tune from Brenspeed [mail order, not custom] it was a completely different animal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95Camaro Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 If we embrace the allowing of computer tuning, then the rule of HP/TQ will still be in place. If you are outside of those numbers, then you are in the wrong. As someone earlier stated, it is coming and lets find a way to embrace it. The only real way to embrace it is to have controls like HP/TQ. Winning is not acheived by HP/TQ alone. It is a driver series and there are alot of drivers out there that are winning with alot less HP/TQ. Lets not be afraid of the computer, lets treat like a friend. You remember, keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Having a "handout" ECU is a waste of time and effort as there is alot of administrative crap that will go along with it. Lets not become SCCA with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 Let's allow stupid wide wings and any octane fuel, but let's leave Pandora's box alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ls168camaro Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 Mitch-the wings are my achilles heel. Why don't you takeover on the point and a half increase in compression ratio allowed for some motors. I have found a way to do some computer tuning that is legal though. It goes back to the update/backdate. I am just going to program my computer to have the best parameters taken from the different years stock tunes. I'm sure the mustang throttle issue/computer tuning will be changed when it is requested by the right folks so just give it time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alien Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Is it legal to reprogram a computer with the data from another legal computer? Forgive my magic box ignorance/lack of knowledge/terminology, but for example, if I have a '91 305 TPI computer, instead of buying a '92 305 TPI computer, can I have mine reprogrammed to the stock '92 info (fuel and timing curves and other magical information they contain)? I read this as being legal per the update/backdate rules. And to take this one step further, would I be able to use the the '92 fuel curve and the '91 timing curve? Again, the way I read it, this is again legal, similar to using a '89 block with '92 heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Ginsberg Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 I have found a way to do some computer tuning that is legal though. It goes back to the update/backdate. I am just going to program my computer to have the best parameters taken from the different years stock tunes. Is it legal to reprogram a computer with the data from another legal computer? Forgive my magic box ignorance/lack of knowledge/terminology, but for example, if I have a '91 305 TPI computer, instead of buying a '92 305 TPI computer, can I have mine reprogrammed to the stock '92 info (fuel and timing curves and other magical information they contain)? I read this as being legal per the update/backdate rules. And to take this one step further, would I be able to use the the '92 fuel curve and the '91 timing curve? Again, the way I read it, this is again legal, similar to using a '89 block with '92 heads. We aren't permitted to modify the ECU at all, regardless of the "update/backdate" rule - the CMC rules don't specifically allow this modification. We can swap ECU's between various years, based on section 4, but reprogramming the ECU is, at this time, not permitted. So - neither of your proposals are legal. Can we police it? Well....we all know the answer to that question..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted October 3, 2008 Members Share Posted October 3, 2008 Still havent received any recommendations to specific wording you'd like to see in the rules around these issues. Just keep in mind Mitch's mantra: simple rule, dont protect racers from themselves, but ensure it is cheap and doesnt impact performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95Camaro Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 The rules cannot take into account everything that could be changed in the ECU, but the HP/TQ rule will control it. There are situations you can improve your HP/TQ/ by changing a few settings if you are low on power. The changes are no different than twisting the distributor cap and tweaking the carb for a better AFR. The intent of this series is to be cost effective and I am all for that, but not allowing ECU changes is not going to effect the costs. If you have a compter, and most people do, and a couple hundred dollars, you can do it. Or pay someone to re-program it for a couple hundred. We allow more money in shocks, tires and the new tire is surely not cost effective. The new tire will make us spend more so how is that in line with the Intent of the series. It will cost a racer at least $300 a weekend on tires plus entry fee plus fuel which will work out to over $500/wkend not including lodging, food and other stuff like brakes, etc.. I have heard there are concerns it can be changed while on the way to the Dyno and that is not the case. It can only be changed by re-programming it with a computer and not while it is running. You want a simple rule.. Here it is.. ECU modifications can be made, but those modifications cannot increase performance beyond the Horesepower and Torque list in the tables for your vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 The rules cannot take into account everything that could be changed in the ECU, but the HP/TQ rule will control it. There are situations you can improve your HP/TQ/ by changing a few settings if you are low on power. The changes are no different than twisting the distributor cap and tweaking the carb for a better AFR. The intent of this series is to be cost effective and I am all for that, but not allowing ECU changes is not going to effect the costs. If you have a compter, and most people do, and a couple hundred dollars, you can do it. Or pay someone to re-program it for a couple hundred. We allow more money in shocks, tires and the new tire is surely not cost effective. The new tire will make us spend more so how is that in line with the Intent of the series. It will cost a racer at least $300 a weekend on tires plus entry fee plus fuel which will work out to over $500/wkend not including lodging, food and other stuff like brakes, etc.. I have heard there are concerns it can be changed while on the way to the Dyno and that is not the case. It can only be changed by re-programming it with a computer and not while it is running. You want a simple rule.. Here it is.. ECU modifications can be made, but those modifications cannot increase performance beyond the Horesepower and Torque list in the tables for your vehicle. I have come to terms with talking to a brick wall. You need to realize that most of the folks who conjure these rules drive a Ford which DOES respond to immediate changes in ECU programming and those changes can be made with a flip of a switch. You know that doesn't work like that on a GM and I know it. The problem is the brick wall ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsim Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 ...The changes are no different than twisting the distributor cap and tweaking the carb for a better AFR.You can't set AFR nor timing at 500 rpm increments in a carbed car. Mucho complaining from the carbed crowd. The intent of this series is to be cost effective and I am all for that, but not allowing ECU changes is not going to effect the costs.NOT allowing it puts that $$ back in your wallet. We allow more money in shocks, tires and the new tire is surely not cost effective. The new tire will make us spend more so how is that in line with the Intent of the series. It will cost a racer at least $300 a weekend on tires plus entry fee plus fuel which will work out to over $500/wkend not including lodging, food and other stuff like brakes, etc..What's that have to do with reprogramming? "Cost effective is staying home - Racing ain't cheap. I regularly spend $1000 per weekend. I have heard there are concerns it can be changed while on the way to the Dyno and that is not the case. It can only be changed by re-programming it with a computer and not while it is running.Sure there is. How about a detuned base program, and a tweaked learned table? Hit the kill switch, kill the learned data, and revert to the base table. I can easily build a monster motor and hobble it with timing retard and less fuel in the base table. Switch power off for 30 seconds between track and dyno - boom, minus 40 hp. You want a simple rule.. Here it is.. ECU modifications can be made, but those modifications cannot increase performance beyond the Horesepower and Torque list in the tables for your vehicle.Simple is not touching it. Power table UNDER the curve hurt the carbed guys. Now, if we deleted carbed cars, I'm all for opening up the rule, but not until then. OR, if you run a carb, you sign a rule waiver that says you'll be down on torque, can't tune like the ECU guys, and waive your right to complain. THEN we can open it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 LOL ... CMC was || close to fvcking over the only cars allowed to run carbs. Now we're catering to them? Got bi-polar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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