jeremiahkellam Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I dont envy the directors. Their job has to be hard as hell. They will never please anybody, any of the time... Creating parity in a series where it is understood that a majority of the competitors dont have the ability to swap engines every 2 races, rebuild shocks several times a year (much less do true testing sessions) or build a fresh chassis every year is going to be damn near impossible. I for one felt that after last year the platforms (excluding the s197) were very well matched. There were multiple instances where 5 platforms and several different engine packages were within a 10th in lap times, thats pretty good!! But how long did it take to get there, well over 5 years?? I also can sympathize with the s197 guys. Last year, the fords were given some allowances, and at the same time, a few ford guys got their shit together, both in car and driver development. Now, there is talk of penalizing the fords. I dont see the justification. I can say, having driven several different s197s in various forms (from full race prep to bone stock), that in the hands of a good driver and tuner, they have an advantage. How much, I dont know. It will take time to figure that out. They will add some weight, and see what happens. All you can do is do your best with what your given, and hope to prove your point in a short amount of time, because bitching here aint gonna change anything. None of us are so good or consistent enough for the data taken to be black and white. Let the directors do their "thankless" job. They will get it right in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermac Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 The Rules are pretty good as they are! This is the biggest point the Directors need to keep in mind when making their decisions on rule changes. The Rules already allow the F-Bodies to perform as good or better than the S-197. The difference is the guys running the S-197's have ponied-up about $20,000 in the last couple of years to build their cars. They built them right off the shelf to maximize the rule book. If the F-Bodied guys would spend a fraction of that money, I'd guess we wouldn't be seeing this post. The rules already allow the parity. Sidney has pointed out a number of areas where Bob's car could go faster if he would spend a little money to do so. Time to step-up Bow-Tie boys! Lets not dumb-down the series. Lets move forward. "I just wanna go fast..." Ricky Bobbie NASA-SE Yo Ricky, Which rules have given the ls-1 4th gen any concessions against the s-197? We run all of the factory stuff except bushings, shocks and brakes. And we run the same weight as you guys. We are essentially running the same rules as a car 11 years newer. I have built a $20000 dollar CMC car, it was very effective and I personally don't think those kind of cars are good for the series. I thnk it sets a bad example for new guys coming in. As a side note me and two other guys are coming down for your Dec road Atlanta race! Boogity Boogity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattr1548534738 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 ...The difference is the guys running the S-197's have ponied-up about $20,000 in the last couple of years to build their cars. They built them right off the shelf to maximize the rule book. ... How much are these cars supposed to cost? I may not be quite up to $20k yet, but with my engine build this year I'm getting damn close in my fox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermac Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 ...The difference is the guys running the S-197's have ponied-up about $20,000 in the last couple of years to build their cars. They built them right off the shelf to maximize the rule book. ... How much are these cars supposed to cost? I may not be quite up to $20k yet, but with my engine build this year I'm getting damn close in my fox. I have 10k in my car. It is competitive locally and more fun than you should be allowed to have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I had under $10K in my old CMC car (2005-2010). I have about the same in my new one I just built last year. One thing to note, I did all my own work except paint. I paid $1500 for the paint job. A front running 4th gen can be built for $5-6K, the rest is a matter of how fancy you want it to look. You can't have have a car like mine built for you for less than $20K. That is the key part of all this - buy a new "custom built for you" car, buy a "already built" car, or build one yourself. The method will dictate the price tag. The only thing my 2 CMC cars have fallen short on w/ regards to "Max of the rules builds" are 13" 4 piston brakes and 17" wheels. I was trying to maintain CMC 1 status and CMC 1 classing for enduro's as long as I could. I did move to CMC2 this year, I just didn't plan to run enough to spend the money on the brakes and wheels. I have 2 sets of wheels right now and I'm working on fix for the 4th gen hubs and issues that result from using non-floating calipers before I invest in brakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMC#11 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Matt, spending well north of $10k on a Mustang is normal for a top-notch front runner. There are many more parts that need to be added to the suspension and drive train to get near the same level as a 4th gen. I quit adding up mine a long time ago b/c I didn't want to cry at the total. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor571548534737 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I have spent way more than 10k and my car sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADVENM Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I have spent way more than 10k and my car sucks. Same here, although its probably more the driver...me. All the upgrades I have planned this off season sure dont bring down the money spent, but I'm having fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattr1548534738 Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Matt, spending well north of $10k on a Mustang is normal for a top-notch front runner. There are many more parts that need to be added to the suspension and drive train to get near the same level as a 4th gen.I quit adding up mine a long time ago b/c I didn't want to cry at the total. Good point, I quit adding things up a while ago too. I also included some consumables and the cost of my tow rig and trailer, so maybe total cost invested in the car build itself is closer to $10k. I also got some amazing deals on my car along with doing 100% of the work myself and unpaid friends (including paint). With that said I didn't leave many upgrades on the table since the rulebook is well written and fairly explicit on build spec. I've always had to mindset of "do it once, do it right" to the detriment to my checkbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cozog1548534733 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Not trying to fan the flames, but I found this to be interesting. SCCA V-6 S197 For Sale: http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=49446 Same car (#22), qualifying results at RA: http://www.scca.com:8090/assets/results/ssb%20q4.pdf Results for CMC races at RA: http://www.mylaps.com/results/showevent.jsp?id=725322 Fast CMC drivers ran 1:39.x-1:41.x, mid-pack drivers were at 1:41.x-1:42.x. I know this isn't scientific, apples-oranges, blah, blah, blah... I just find it interesting that a V-6 S197 is mid-pack vs. CMC V-8s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Same car (#22), qualifying results at RA: Fast CMC drivers ran 1:39.x-1:41.x, mid-pack drivers were at 1:41.x-1:42.x. I know this isn't scientific, apples-oranges, blah, blah, blah... I just find it interesting that a V-6 S197 is mid-pack vs. CMC V-8s. The Run-offs were wet this year. Not sure all sessions were but it was a very rainy week. Sidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermac Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Matt, spending well north of $10k on a Mustang is normal for a top-notch front runner. There are many more parts that need to be added to the suspension and drive train to get near the same level as a 4th gen.I quit adding up mine a long time ago b/c I didn't want to cry at the total. Good point, I quit adding things up a while ago too. I also included some consumables and the cost of my tow rig and trailer, so maybe total cost invested in the car build itself is closer to $10k. I also got some amazing deals on my car along with doing 100% of the work myself and unpaid friends (including paint). With that said I didn't leave many upgrades on the table since the rulebook is well written and fairly explicit on build spec. I've always had to mindset of "do it once, do it right" to the detriment to my checkbook. "I" added consumables (beer) and my tow vehicle and trailer so I had $200,000 in my old CMC car!! Haha Matt your funny. How can you add that to the cost of your car??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattr1548534738 Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Matt, spending well north of $10k on a Mustang is normal for a top-notch front runner. There are many more parts that need to be added to the suspension and drive train to get near the same level as a 4th gen.I quit adding up mine a long time ago b/c I didn't want to cry at the total. Good point, I quit adding things up a while ago too. I also included some consumables and the cost of my tow rig and trailer, so maybe total cost invested in the car build itself is closer to $10k. I also got some amazing deals on my car along with doing 100% of the work myself and unpaid friends (including paint). With that said I didn't leave many upgrades on the table since the rulebook is well written and fairly explicit on build spec. I've always had to mindset of "do it once, do it right" to the detriment to my checkbook. "I" added consumables (beer) and my tow vehicle and trailer so I had $200,000 in my old CMC car!! Haha Matt your funny. How can you add that to the cost of your car??? Everytime I added up the cost it was because (non CMC) people ask me how much it cost to go racing. I threw $20k out as a round number to start and $6k per year if nothing breaks. The cost of a competitive car I have no idea because I'm nowhere near competitive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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