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Talk to me about 5th Gen Camaros

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mitchntx1548534714

 

I am not happy with what Mitch said.

 

Well don't stew on it ... tell me.

 

Maybe what I typed you misunderstood.

 

Maybe you understood all to well and have something profound that will make a light bulb go off for me.

 

Saying nothing is typical ... be atypical, Brian.

 

Being pissed off at me (or anyone) and then not saying anything, but yet holding a grudge is EXACTLY what fosters ill feelings mistrust.

Edited by Guest

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G_Lemke

Is this a hint of what is ahead?

 

"V8" replaced with "American"?

 

from page 3:

 

The intent of the Camaro Mustang Challenge (CMC) racing series is to provide National Auto Sport

Association (NASA) members a racing series featuring production V812American13 pony cars.

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Tommy551548534728

There are some really good ides here.

1. Is there enough data to say that the S197 is a class killer.

2. If they let the car in will it destroy cmc as we know it.

3. Can we send the s197 to AI or PT

4. How many racers are waiting on the sidelines to see what happens.

 

This my opinion and an opinion only.

Let the s197 run in a different class until more data is retrieved. I believe the car will destroy cmc as it has destroyed AI. It is a class killer as the technology is better than any of us have seen. It's too late for AI, but please try and save cmc. It is a very equal class to all platforms. It has taken a long time to get it there. Don't ruin it. Let the 5th gen camaro also run in another class until the research has been done on that. There are plenty of old Mustangs and Camaros to build.

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Glenn
Is this a hint of what is ahead?

 

"V8" replaced with "American"?

 

from page 3:

 

The intent of the Camaro Mustang Challenge (CMC) racing series is to provide National Auto Sport

Association (NASA) members a racing series featuring production V812American13 pony cars.

 

Nope. Think more along the lines of a new class w/ "American" in it.

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Glenn
There are some really good ides here.

1. Is there enough data to say that the S197 is a class killer.

2. If they let the car in will it destroy cmc as we know it.

3. Can we send the s197 to AI or PT

4. How many racers are waiting on the sidelines to see what happens.

 

This my opinion and an opinion only.

Let the s197 run in a different class until more data is retrieved. I believe the car will destroy cmc as it has destroyed AI. It is a class killer as the technology is better than any of us have seen. It's too late for AI, but please try and save cmc. It is a very equal class to all platforms. It has taken a long time to get it there. Don't ruin it. Let the 5th gen camaro also run in another class until the research has been done on that. There are plenty of old Mustangs and Camaros to build.

 

Tommy - you did see the tire size adjustment to the S-197 for 2012, right?

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roadracerwhite

 

I am not happy with what Mitch said.

 

Well don't stew on it ... tell me.

 

Maybe what I typed you misunderstood.

 

Maybe you understood all to well and have something profound that will make a light bulb go off for me.

 

Saying nothing is typical ... be atypical, Brian.

 

Being pissed off at me (or anyone) and then not saying anything, but yet holding a grudge is EXACTLY what fosters ill feelings mistrust.

 

I am not holding a grudge, I just can't get my point across very effectively at work in a timely manner. By the time I get home I forget my point anyway.

 

 

Those who advocate not splitting the series to accommodate different performance platforms are looking to stroke their own ego by bragging to their buddies that they competed against 30 cars.

 

This is what I am talking about, from your point of view you have always had someone to race with. Texas has had enough CMC/AI cars to get their own run group for quite some time. Till this year we were lucky to get in the tire money at an event. So to take one car away means a lot to everyone around here. I don't have an ego to stroke, I don't care where I finish I just want to have a good time during the weekend.

 

 

As far as creating a new class for the newer cars, I think it sucks, the idea we can't reel in the new cars enough to compete with the old cars doesn't make any sense to me. There are options. You certainly won't be able to go buy one and expect to use the stock components from it either.

 

Some of us here in the Midwest used to race with another organization. They are the best example of what happens when you have a class for every car. They end up with run groups with 20 cars in 10 different classes.....whoo hoo everyone gets a trophy.

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mitchntx1548534714

Kids just suck the synapse right out of you ...

 

I do realize there are regions out there that don't have the car count that Texas or California or Rocky Mountain has.

 

But they got their car count, not based upon opening up the doors to CMC2 or now to CMC3, but rather by having a stable, established rule set ... CMC1.

 

It's easy to blame the economy on a drop in numbers or lack of series growth.

 

But in a fragile economy, what rocket scientist thinks its a good idea to create a series that requires participants to spend money on an otherwise legal and competitive platform in order to remain competitive? And a platform whose roots are based upon the economy of running in it? And a series that showed a steady growth in car count nationwide? Until ...

 

If I recall, the pinnacle of car count at Nationals was the same year CMC2 was announced ... hmmmm ... the coincidences just keep adding up.

 

And I admit it ... I went to the duece early on and regret that decision looking back.

 

Kudos to you, Bob and Sydney for stepping up and sinking dollars into already stoopid fast cars. I'm sure those checks were painful to write.

 

Had CMC1 not been pronounced dead and you guys had stood pat, how many potential cars would you now have compared to the number of S197s chomping at the ABS to start running?

 

Car count not withstanding, I think a series is healthier with 4 or 5 3Gs and foxes than 6 or 7 cars 3 being S197s. Be honest, CMC is not a big spectator draw. So the "newer" platforms doesn't put butts in seats.

 

So some one new coming into the series is looking at $5000 investment vs a $15,000 investment, guess which will grow the series.

 

The S197 owners are an anomole. There aren't throngs of folks out there with sawzall in hand ready to build an 07 Mustang for CMC racing. When folks say the S197 is a "class killer", I don't think they are necessarily thinking about it from a performance standpoint.

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Glenn

When I say class killer, that is how I intend it to come across - based on performance.

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ShadowBolt
There are some really good ides here.

1. Is there enough data to say that the S197 is a class killer.

2. If they let the car in will it destroy cmc as we know it.

3. Can we send the s197 to AI or PT

4. How many racers are waiting on the sidelines to see what happens.

 

There are plenty of old Mustangs and Camaros to build.

 

I don't understand why we think we need to let any new cars in the series. As Tommy said there are PLENTY of old Mustangs and Camaros left to build race cars out of for many years to come. Like Mitch said we don't have enough people watching our races to make any difference but in Texas at least CMC has more people watching than any other group does. Before the S197 I think the cars were as close to even as anyone could ever get them. Now if we would lose the big brake kits, go back to 16" tires, and CMC power and punt the S197 all would be good in the world again.

 

 

JJ

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Glenn
Now if we would lose the big brake kits, go back to 16" tires, and CMC power and punt the S197 all would be good in the world again.

 

 

JJ

 

Jerry for President!

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AllZWay
When I say class killer, that is how I intend it to come across - based on performance.

 

And racers are their own worst enemy.... If a car is faster or even has the perception of being faster.... folks will move to that platform regardless of costs and spend stupid money doing it.

 

I think CMC is headed for troubled waters and Mitch has a point to some degree.

 

If it cost $5,000 to go race versus $20,000 you would see more growth. The S197 having an advantage could force those wanting to be competitve to spend more or leave the series.

 

I applaud the CMC managment team trying to level the playing field so that a $5,000 CMC car can compete with a $20,000 CMC car.... it is a tough thing to do.

 

I am not a fan of multiple CMC classes, but the future may dictate it anyway.

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supermac

What everybody is missing is that the s-197 is already legal and fast and from what I can see no where near developed!

I give all the directors kudos for acting swiftly to avoid the onslaught of s-197s, is a tire change enough tho?

I agree with jj to a point that the class is awesome now, just not on the smaller brake stuff

I still believe that small bumps every once in a while are a good thing, so that stuff doesn't get stale.

 

Back to watching my car sit in the garage, cause it is perfect just the way it is!

(More fun than you should be allowed to have and very low maintenance)

 

Where's the first turn and what's the track record?

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Steve91T

I guess I really don't see the problem. These new, $20,000 cars are going to have skinny little tires.

 

If they are putting down the same lap times as an older Camaro, what's the problem? Are you guys afraid that it's still going to be too fast?

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ShadowBolt
I guess I really don't see the problem. These new, $20,000 cars are going to have skinny little tires.

 

If they are putting down the same lap times as an older Camaro, what's the problem? Are you guys afraid that it's still going to be too fast?

 

I bet they are still too fast.

 

I know the 17's we run now do not last near as long as the 16's did. I don't know why but I used to get the whole season on two sets of new tires. Now I can't get close to that. The whole reason to start racing in CMC was it looked like a way to go racing on the cheap. How much more is the extra power we are running now costing us in tires and wear and tear on the drivetrain?

 

JJ

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wastntim
I guess I really don't see the problem. These new, $20,000 cars are going to have skinny little tires.

 

If they are putting down the same lap times as an older Camaro, what's the problem? Are you guys afraid that it's still going to be too fast?

 

I bet they are still too fast.

 

I know the 17's we run now do not last near as long as the 16's did. I don't know why but I used to get the whole season on two sets of new tires. Now I can't get close to that. The whole reason to start racing in CMC was it looked like a way to go racing on the cheap. How much more is the extra power we are running now costing us in tires and wear and tear on the drivetrain?

 

JJ

 

I think this tire change will have a big effect. During this last year, Anders was burning the tires off his car on a regular basis but that was with a whole bunch of extra weight. Now, I think he will need to trim the car down a bit and with the loss in width he is going to be slowed down, simply because the tires will not take the speed the wider tires did.

 

As for the tire wear, I do not think it is the extra speed that is the problem, rather it it is the tire composition. Guys in other classes, including AI, had the same complaint about the newer toyos. Quite simply, they are not lasting nearly as long as they used to and those guys had not increased their horsepower.

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Tommy551548534728
There are some really good ides here.

1. Is there enough data to say that the S197 is a class killer.

2. If they let the car in will it destroy cmc as we know it.

3. Can we send the s197 to AI or PT

4. How many racers are waiting on the sidelines to see what happens.

 

This my opinion and an opinion only.

Let the s197 run in a different class until more data is retrieved. I believe the car will destroy cmc as it has destroyed AI. It is a class killer as the technology is better than any of us have seen. It's too late for AI, but please try and save cmc. It is a very equal class to all platforms. It has taken a long time to get it there. Don't ruin it. Let the 5th gen camaro also run in another class until the research has been done on that. There are plenty of old Mustangs and Camaros to build.

 

Tommy - you did see the tire size adjustment to the S-197 for 2012, right?

 

Is that enough???

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CF03GT

Is it too much?!!

 

But back on topic.. I'm in agreement on how could the new Camaro NOT be included in CMC (or at least be currently seriously looked at/tested) considering the new Mustang is currently allowed (yhea, I know.. IRS, big HP, blah blah.. all can be easily addressed).

 

I would love to see a different class for the new cars (Camaro, S197, Challenger, ect).

This would keep the guys in older pony cars happy (and really stick to the CMC philosophy of cheap, easy set-up "run what ya brung and bring your a-game" philosophy) and would give the guys w/ newer cars (that dont want to get in neck deep (read AI)) a place to run and develop the new cars.

But there just isnt enough new cars out there to justify it, and the class size would be abysmal if so (at least for a few years).

 

I can feel for the directors here (I obviously dont have an answer on what to do..).

Just hoping we can all get through this "new" vs "old" friction (hope not all due to the "new" cars being emasculated

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bluebandit48

how about we keep CMC 2..

 

the current rules are for CMC1

 

CMC2 for new stuff.. boss cars.. camaros.. and other mustangs that want to run a bigger tire than 235.

 

 

isnt that why cmc 2 came to be in the first place.. to make room for the 197s? why cant we do it for you chevy boys??

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Adam Ginsberg
isnt that why cmc 2 came to be in the first place.. to make room for the 197s? why cant we do it for you chevy boys??

 

CMC2 was actually brought about to bring in the LS1 Cam/birds, the 4.6 DOHC Mustangs, and the S197's.

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bluebandit48

ok.. i just knew the mustang side of it.

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CF03GT

.,

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comeback kid

My opinion is all cars eventually end up in Vintage or just left to rot. NASA should realize this and look to offer a new CMC class for stuff 2008 and up or something. Something to allow the 400 hp factory cars a place to race. I know they look at that class as being AI but that isn't a class where you can put a cage in it and go race competitively. Like Glenn says a showroom stock kind of class.

 

American Muscle Car Challenge

American Muscle Series

American Muscle Car Series

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D Algozine

My opinion is all cars eventually end up in Vintage or just left to rot. NASA should realize this and look to offer a new CMC class for stuff 2008 and up or something. Something to allow the 400 hp factory cars a place to race. I know they look at that class as being AI but that isn't a class where you can put a cage in it and go race competitively. Like Glenn says a showroom stock kind of class.

 

American Muscle Car Challenge

American Muscle Series

American Muscle Car Series

 

C amaro

M ustang

C hallenger ....... (get it ??)

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raybob92891548534723

American Muscle Car Challenge

American Muscle Series

American Muscle Car Series

 

C amaro

M ustang

C hallenger ....... (get it ??)

 

Cool Dave.

BTW,

NO MORE CMC 3,4,5,6, For now handicap the newer cars to meet in the middle with the older cars. When the fox body's and 3rd gens are maxed out they'll eventually all disapear on their own.

Lock up your daughters, 5th Gens are Coming...

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