t500hps Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I recently bought a 96 4.6 mustang, got my comp license and am running CMC. The previous owner was very competitive and ran no wing what so ever. I've jumped in this well sorted car and have performed well (several podiums in 9-12 car fields). I keep thinking I want a rear wing but I think I want it for cosmetics! Is anyone running an SN95 successfully without one. There are many types so I understand the changes it provides are hard to measure on a forum but what am I missing.....I need a little education I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suck fumes1548534743 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) Wings are for AI wannabes haha! Just drive it without one and with one and record data. Top speed difference, cornering stability, braking stability. Every car behaves different based on your setup so putting one on just "because everyone else is doing it" is not a good reason to do it. If its just looks you're after then that's a choice you'll have to make and ask yourself is it worth possibly hurting the performance of my car cause it looks cool? Edited October 16, 2013 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowBolt Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 All the Cobra R wing does is makes it hard to see out the back. I could not tell any difference at all. Maybe the Blaine Fab spoiler would help some but it's high for what it is. I have see several with home made aluminum units. If I knew anyone that had a sheet metal shop I would build one for my car. JJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHISSTC Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Plenty of folks are running the SN95, both the early and new edge versions, successfully without a rear wing. Are you wanting an OEM spoiler, or a "racer" wing/spoiler? There are differences in each. With an OEM spoiler, you will be getting very little, if any benefit from rear downforce, but it will increase drag. I can't remember who it was, but I think someone here said it best when they remarked that the OEM wing DOES provide downforce... ...the same 5 lbs of downforce at all speeds. It looks stock, so if you want a sporty stock look, there you go. That's it's main benefit. Effective racer wings/spoilers work in different ways. A wing places an airfoil in the airstream (of hopefully non-turbulent air, but good luck with that since we are limited on how high you can place the wing) that produces "lift" (downforce) towards the ground. A spoiler traps the air moving over the rear deck and creates a high pressure area over the rear deck that presses down on the car and provides downforce. Spoilers can also be used to control the airflow separation point on the back of a car to reduce rear end lift at higher speeds, which isn't exactly the same as adding downforce. The spoiler is the brute force method of producing downforce that isn't as efficient as a real airfoil in a wing, but it's often a more simple and cheaper way of doing it. One thing to remember when adding any downforce to either the front or the back of the car, is that you wan't to have a balanced condition. If you add massive amounts of rear downforce to keep the rear planted in high speed turns, you'll probably also have to add some front downforce to counteract the massive amount of front end push you've probably also created. However, in CMC, adding front aero to increase front end downforce is a no, no. Therefore adding a big 'ol wing to the rear is probably counter productive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t500hps Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 I bought the car with the factory wing off and I re installed it. Last weekends race was mist/rain most of the time and the few dry sessions felt slow. I borrowed and tried an adjustable wing from a fellow racer but really couldn't tell much difference (again, conditions sucked). I need to decide whether to send him the wing back or keep and adjust it.......without the benefit of track time for the next couple months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMC#11 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I'd send the wing back to him and not worry about putting another one back on the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dustin M. Posted October 17, 2013 Members Share Posted October 17, 2013 I'd send the wing back to him and not worry about putting another one back on the car. It's too bad the wing couldn't be mounted lower and farther forward, might make for good ballast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHISSTC Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I'd send the wing back to him and not worry about putting another one back on the car. It's too bad the wing couldn't be mounted lower and farther forward, might make for good ballast. That's what batteries are for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dustin M. Posted October 17, 2013 Members Share Posted October 17, 2013 I'd send the wing back to him and not worry about putting another one back on the car. It's too bad the wing couldn't be mounted lower and farther forward, might make for good ballast. That's what batteries are for. Until semi batteries and nuke-proof boxes got outlawed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t500hps Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 I was going to post a pic but do not have a hosting site anywhere and apparently this site doesn't allow direct attachments. Basically it's a custom made adjustable wing that's about 11 inches above the trunk lid. I too am thinking I need to just send it back. http://forums.boatfreaks.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=131135&stc=1&d=1382010462 EDIT: I attached it to another forum and posted the link to the pic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blk96gt Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 You have to be registered on that forum to view the image. Try www.imgur.com for image hosting. It's what I usually use and works well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I dont run a wing on my 2000 GT, basically because I knew the stock unit was not doing anything but adding weight so I removed it. My friend has a cobra r wing that I have considered trying out but from what shawbolt just said it might not be worth the trouble? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t500hps Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 I dont run a wing on my 2000 GT, basically because I knew the stock unit was not doing anything but adding weight so I removed it. My friend has a cobra r wing that I have considered trying out but from what shawbolt just said it might not be worth the trouble? I've only got a couple weekends under my belt in this car so I'm learning(but did manage a first last weekend under rain in an 11 CMC car field!!!). Have you ever felt you needed a wing? I've been running without one and the only thing I feel "wrong" with the car is a loose front end at about 130mph (end of fastest straight). A buddy following me in a race said it looked like my rearend was really loose going through some uphill eses.....I've not felt out of control there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suck fumes1548534743 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 A wing is the last thing you want if your front end is loose cause it'll just push the rear down even more taking more weight off the front. You have your car sprung to stiff if you are sliding a lot or your driving style is too aggressive. Smooth is fast! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t500hps Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 A wing is the last thing you want if your front end is loose cause it'll just push the rear down even more taking more weight off the front. You have your car sprung to stiff if you are sliding a lot or your driving style is too aggressive. Smooth is fast! The "loose" front end is on that one stretch where we pop over a hill a couple hundred yards from the brake zone.....I've always felt dropping off that hill at 130 was the cause of front end "looseness". Otherwise the car seems very predictable but does have to be slung around a bit. The previous owner welded the rear so the inside wheel spins exactly the same as the outside wheel. Requires more aggressive rotation entering and apexing a corner but bites well coming out of the turns. (this rear makes my winning performances in the rain even more surprising to me). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I've only got a couple weekends under my belt in this car so I'm learning(but did manage a first last weekend under rain in an 11 CMC car field!!!). Have you ever felt you needed a wing? I've been running without one and the only thing I feel "wrong" with the car is a loose front end at about 130mph (end of fastest straight). A buddy following me in a race said it looked like my rearend was really loose going through some uphill eses.....I've not felt out of control there. Never felt I needed a wing, but the thought crossed my mind to try one to see how it affected the car since thats the only aero mod allowed. I would think the cobra R wing was designed to work in conjunction with the cobra R front splitter to maybe offset the downforce gained by the wing but we cant use the splitter. So if you have just the rear wing and no front splitter it would make sense that the front would become lighter at high speeds and that was your original complaint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Algozine Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Not sure if this has been said, but providing down force is not the only function of a wing or spoiler. They can clean up the turbulent air rolling over the back of the car, which helps to minimize some drag. Like any other component, it needs to be tuned to work effectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrC Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 OEM spoiler I removed it after watching suck fumes at the 2013 Nationals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suck fumes1548534743 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 LOL!! it's always funny when people copy the fast guy thinking their way is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrC Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 You only confirmed what I was thinking and had read as to the effectiveness of the OEM wing. It was also a complement to your 2013 results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suck fumes1548534743 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Yah I've asked some Camaro guys before as to why they run a big flap on the rear deck lid....their answer, "I don't know, all the fast guys are running it". So they don't even have proof as to whether it actually works or just slows them down on the straight! Hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dustin M. Posted November 25, 2013 Members Share Posted November 25, 2013 What if you bought the car like that and you're scared of making it slower by screwing with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suck fumes1548534743 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Then do some tests with and without it and compare data. Pretty easy to do. You can't screw anything up by removing or adding one. Just put it back where it was if it gets worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t500hps Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 Then do some tests with and without it and compare data. Pretty easy to do. You can't screw anything up by removing or adding one. Just put it back where it was if it gets worse. This is where I am now and why I started this thread.....I bought my car already race proven without a wing and came across a chance to try one. Bolted it on for the last race of the year and it freakin rained!!! Didn't really get to see how it effected the car but with 4 race weekends under my belt I'm not positive I can "feel" the difference yet anyway. Rained turned out to be a blessing, even after the field dropped to 7 cars I WON!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dustin M. Posted November 25, 2013 Members Share Posted November 25, 2013 I'm with the OP, I'm not sure I'd notice a difference either way. Of course the local tracks may have something to do with it, I might feel something on a set of triple digit s curves but we have nothing like that here. OP, how consistent of lap times can you run? I was shocked to see that, with no traffic, I can run laps that are less than a second apart. Didn't think I was there yet, but when the cool guys can keep it closer than that, I've still got a ways to go. I don't know if that's consistent enough to see a difference on the clock with respect to tuning a halfassed wing. IMO the car should be set up based on the clock and not so much based on feel unless the car scares you. I've been too chicken shit to change anything on the car yet, not even the brake bias. I've just adapted to the car. I think I'm in for a slump next year as I force myself out of my comfort zone and start changing things up. Might as well blow the rookie year on that and come back swinging for 2015. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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