860TTC Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 While the text that you have acquired deals with the 97-98 cars, this does not address the 99-00 FRC cars. The FRC was base car and came equipped with Z51. I guess all the years of confusing GM option sheets have caught up with you. I’m sure if someone showed up with a F-body they would have similar issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loudes13 Posted August 28, 2006 Author Share Posted August 28, 2006 sounds like a C5 won't be the way to go for TTB in '07, at least for me. all the debate for factory options really takes a lot of fun out of it for me too. It also hurts the resale value of NASA cars to the general SCCA or track day public - who'd want to buy a former NASA non z51 C5 or a miata without the limited slip. half the fun is finding the RIGHT car for the class. By penalizing better options, your forcing us to spend big dollars (that I don't have) on aftermarket better peices. Miata's shouldn't be penalized for limited slips (no LS 1.8 miata's are pretty rare). Corvettes should get bumped to the next class because of z51, etc. btw the regular c6 z51 is shocks, sways, and a better gear ratio. It's a TTU car bone stock. Ok it's time for me to chill out. Danny and John, I'll have to get you guys a Speedtech sticker and MAYBE even a t-shirt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
860TTC Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 half the fun is finding the RIGHT car for the class. By penalizing better options, your forcing us to spend big dollars (that I don't have) on aftermarket better pieces. I don’t understand what you are trying to say. Finding a new car sounds like a lot of money. More money than adding some parts. It sounds very much like the SCCA. Aftermarket companies can sponsor NASA and make are cars faster than the factory can. btw the regular c6 z51 is shocks, sways, and a better gear ratio. It's a TTU car bone stock. It has different brakes too. I’d base the car on what 90% of the track drivers own. If someone has a lower option car then they will have to drive really well or step up to the plate on some performance parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Graber Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 I agree with Greg's interpretation. The intent is what is important here and the intent was to class cars based on there "base" set-up. In this case the interpreted "base" classed car is without the Z51 package. And no we're not picking on you or your car Danny and I certainly agree with the assessment of your driving skills.....but, your car is not evan a FRC so this debate is purely hypothetical. Anyway, like it or not, this is how it's going to be handled until there is a change in the rules. Remember, my house my rules, except when Greenbaum is involved. In this case it's Greenbaums house Greenbaums rules. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 btw the regular c6 z51 is shocks, sways, and a better gear ratio. It's a TTU car bone stock. If that's the case, then the C5 Z06 should be a TTU car bone stock, too. Then by doing that, just a couple of mods, and it's into TTR with true race cars. As a C5 Z06 owner, that just doesn't seem fair to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 Wow, and thought SCCA rules were too complex! I solo a F Stock Z28. I drive it every day too, so it has power windows, and AC. GM offered 2 rear end gear ratio's, mine the better one. With the kumho's I run, the OTS koni's, borla, and the FACTORY gear ratio, it looks like I'm pretty close to TTC. Doesn't make sense that I can take the AC out and put in a fancy 5lbs battery yet be penalised for a factory option. oh well I guess I'll stay with the SCCA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loudes13 Posted August 28, 2006 Author Share Posted August 28, 2006 AC removal + lite battery + no pts = big can o worms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Graber Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 Nice to know the SCCA guys are watching to see what's going on. I wonder how their "Time Trials" program is doing. I looked in my region and they didn't have a single event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAFTRACER Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 (edited) Dont know how their TT program is going , but their solo nationals alone dwarfs the NASA championship by about 3:1 currently and will be getting bigger in the next few days............And that doesn't include their club racing national championships................If NASA wants to prosper like them, they should mimick what they do well, and shy away from what they do poorly. Want some help deciphering that. I think the above SCCA FS guy knows already. More cross-over from that particular organization could only help NASA. Edited August 29, 2006 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAFTRACER Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 (edited) I agree with Greg's interpretation. The intent is what is important here and the intent was to class cars based on there "base" set-up. In this case the interpreted "base" classed car is without the Z51 package. And no we're not picking on you or your car Danny and I certainly agree with the assessment of your driving skills.....but, your car is not evan a FRC so this debate is purely hypothetical. Anyway, like it or not, this is how it's going to be handled until there is a change in the rules. Remember, my house my rules, except when Greenbaum is involved. In this case it's Greenbaums house Greenbaums rules. J The intent of the rules doesn't mean didly squat in regard to TTU or TTR, so why go back and talk about the "intent" of the rules in all of the other classes..................... I have a bunch of highlighted TT rules for you and Greg to read in a couple of weeks.They even use the word intent in description of the TTU and TTR rules dont they. Everyone will play by Greenbaum's rules, but that doesn't mean we have to agree with them. I know this whole TT thing is new and NASA has done the best they can with them , but I am not so sure that a single individual can make the best rulings on a variety of diffent platforms. With that said I think Greg has put exhaustive research into these rules and has done the best he can. Still doesn't mean that there aren't some issues. Edited August 29, 2006 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAFTRACER Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 btw the regular c6 z51 is shocks, sways, and a better gear ratio. It's a TTU car bone stock. If that's the case, then the C5 Z06 should be a TTU car bone stock, too. Then by doing that, just a couple of mods, and it's into TTR with true race cars. As a C5 Z06 owner, that just doesn't seem fair to me. Preach on brother, I've been screaming this for the last two months. ( In TTA* the Z06 already takes 27 more points than the TTB C5, more than the sum of its pieces........TTU/TTR is a slightly different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehawkclone Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 btw the regular c6 z51 is shocks, sways, and a better gear ratio. It's a TTU car bone stock. If that's the case, then the C5 Z06 should be a TTU car bone stock, too. Then by doing that, just a couple of mods, and it's into TTR with true race cars. As a C5 Z06 owner, that just doesn't seem fair to me. Preach on brother, I've been screaming this for the last two months. ( In TTA* the Z06 already takes 27 more points than the TTB C5, more than the sum of its pieces........TTU/TTR is a slightly different story. My car is in a similar spot as the C5 cars. I have a 95 firebird which is a TTD car. Without going into all of the other cars in this class, I will focus on just the 98/02 camaro-firebirds which are TTD* cars. I'm down 70/80hp in a higher rpm range, way smaller brakes, a weaker clutch and slave, driveshaft, and some parts in the trans. Not to metion the lighter weight of the LS motor on the nose. That seems like 7 points to me So I feel your pain, but Greg and the guys do try thier best! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
860TTC Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 Are there any LS1 F-Bodies in TT? I only seen 1 TT F-Body in 3 years. It was an LT!. You can update/backdate parts from the LS1 models if they are classed the same. Are you killed by factory option points? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehawkclone Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Are there any LS1 F-Bodies in TT? I only seen 1 TT F-Body in 3 years. It was an LT!. You can update/backdate parts from the LS1 models if they are classed the same. Are you killed by factory option points? There is 1 other LT and 1 LS here in SoCal. Only the front brakes and drive shaft are worth updating. My Formula is a no option car, unlike the Firehawk, SS, and the 1LE cars. I'm just saying there is no way I can get 70hp and better front brakes, clutch, slave, and trans for 7 points! Besides my car is a TTB car now, were I have to run against C5 FRC's apparently Its just my bad luck at work again, thats all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shawn M. Posted August 30, 2006 Members Share Posted August 30, 2006 I'm just saying there is no way I can get 70hp and better front brakes, clutch, slave, and trans for 7 points! Yeah but you should be able to get a couple points back for having to live with what ever died in that car. The smell is torturous and worth at least 2 points! Im sure Greg will give you a waiver. Unless of course, you enjoy the smell of some sort of biological experiment gone wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehawkclone Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 I'm just saying there is no way I can get 70hp and better front brakes, clutch, slave, and trans for 7 points! Yeah but you should be able to get a couple points back for having to live with what ever died in that car. The smell is torturous and worth at least 2 points! Im sure Greg will give you a waiver. Unless of course, you enjoy the smell of some sort of biological experiment gone wrong. I'm telling you the smell goes away at high speeds, except when I lap VW's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loudes13 Posted August 30, 2006 Author Share Posted August 30, 2006 on f bodys don't forget the performance rear end. same with the FRC, z51, 3.42, alternate weight, it adds up to be 12-14pts. and real tires at 7pts are worth 70hp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAFTRACER Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 The 3.42 is standard on all manual transmission C5 and C6 Corvettes=no points. The transmission gearing is different in the Z06, and is not always advantageous. Weigh your car with the standard tires on it , thats what they are basing the difference upon. Real glad I am not policing all of this crap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledfoot2 Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 My 99 FRC can run in TTA, or PTA as it is set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehawkclone Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 on f bodys don't forget the performance rear end. same with the FRC, z51, 3.42, alternate weight, it adds up to be 12-14pts. and real tires at 7pts are worth 70hp There is no "performance axle" or diff on a standard v8 Fbody, except the Firehawk/SS car's. And it get's 3.42's with the 6sp also. V710's are worth it, but not when they get them too! And trust me when I say 70hp means something on 2 of the 3 tracks I run on. Anyway..... I'm not mad at the rules, they are what they are. But that upper a-arm C/C plate thing sucks! I run for fun. I'm in a great battle with an 02 M coupe and a 03 350Z, both are gutted with R compounds. And great drivers! Goodtimes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted August 31, 2006 National Staff Share Posted August 31, 2006 Real glad I am not policing all of this crap Says you--you've spoken up too much--now we know who to go to for Vette info on the fly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAFTRACER Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Greg, I'll help anyway that I can, I am however glad that I am not ultimately responsible. Look forward to meeting you and the other left coasters in a couple of weeks............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAFTRACER Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 Supersized my Nationals entry this evening, hopefully in TTB. Any guess to what I'll be driving Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tornado Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 Ford Mustang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrrracer Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 Turbo Miata S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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