robbodleimages Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I have an S197 Mustang project coming in. No engine or trans with the package. I am curious what other guys are running and how its working for you? Thanx in advance for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodeoFlyer Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 I believe Robin Burnet and Matt Erickson both run 351w's. Cheap and reliable, but heavy. That would be my second choice. Ross Murray is running a 302 and change. The 4.63v is strong and light. You can get a stripped harness for them from FRPP. When mine finally lets go someday i'll put another one in, with better rods and maybe pistons but not much else. My first choice if I were in your shoes would be a crated 4.6 3v frop FRPP and a harness. They even sell the gas pedal set up for the drive-by-wire. Mine has had 2 of us beating on it for basicly 4 full seasons of track days, and it still makes the power. OR you could buy 3 or 4 LS motors and try that....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST#97 Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 If the car is going to be heavy, say 3300+ pounds, I would build a big bore/stroked aluminum mod motor with the C port heads, all the bolt on go fast goodies and about 12.5:1 compression. Mild cams would have that motor in the 350/360 range easily and would spin to 8k if you wanted too. If you can get the car down to 3100 or less....I suggest a big bore aluminum 2V mod with 13:1 compression and nasty cams. Works for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodeoFlyer Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 a 3v with stock heads, stock throttle body, and stock intake manifold can get real close to those numbers, at under 7,000 rpm. 2v's take a lot of bolt-ons to make that power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastrader1 Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Rob, Put the correct engine that car deserves, anything less would should be criminal. It is FR500C clone and should have 5L Cammer motor...... Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted March 20, 2009 Author Share Posted March 20, 2009 The 5L cammer is being discontinued. one of the main reasons I am considering other options is that its not practical to race a car with a discontinued engine. particularly when the engine costs $25k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakota guy Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 you cant go wrong with the tried and proven pushrod engines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastrader1 Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Rob, Did Ford cancel the 5L Coyote engine? Last time I checked, that was a modular based platform. So obviously, the cammer program is not discontinued. Altered/changed, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share Posted March 22, 2009 no. the coyote is scheduled for release in 2010/2011. but it is not the same engine as the 5L cammer and therefore not correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST#97 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 2v's take a lot of bolt-ons to make that power. Nah, just a smart build and compression! Peak numbers are one thing...area under the curve, namely the torque curve is something entirely different...and the 3V and 4V motors won't get there till you stroke/bore and add compression. They can however build for a very WIDE powerband which comes in handy. Pushrods? What the hell are those? If you want a serious "one off" build. Buy the GT supercar block with the wet sump setup and put navigator heads on it with one of the various sheetmetal intakes or a carb intake on it for some serious torque and power along with light weight. The blocks are down to $3k and the rest can be gotten from a junkyard for cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluefirepony Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 The 4.6L 3V is a good dependable package under 400HP and you can get to 330/340 easily...above that will take some work but doable - I am heading that direction for 2010. I actually love the power band myself. Great torque curve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGZOSTD Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I'm doing an AI build on a 06 right now and the big problem with the 2v, 3v or 4v is tonage . and a 5.4 , why not run an F-150. Opps , not a sedan. I'll roll with a 302 and keep the wt. as low as posible. The 3v has over 100lbs on my 302 and thats not with a transmission. Plus the pushrods make more power with less obamabucks . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST#97 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I'm doing an AI build on a 06 right now and the big problem with the 2v, 3v or 4v is tonage . and a 5.4 , why not run an F-150. Opps , not a sedan. I'll roll with a 302 and keep the wt. as low as posible. The 3v has over 100lbs on my 302 and thats not with a transmission. Plus the pushrods make more power with less obamabucks . I will ask the question I don't have the answer too but how many pushrod motors running 13:1 compression and have a usable power band from 3000 to 7000 and have lasted 4 seasons...without turning into pieces....? I would like to hear that answer to compare. as for the 5.4...the aluminum block is only 3000 bucks...it's OEM and fits the AI ruleset. cubes, torque, wide rpm range and there are plenty of other ways to lose weight. I just can't stand 302 based motors as they are too complex and have too many moving parts to deal with! LOL!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGZOSTD Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 3k for an oe stock block thats spendy Dart , any size you like up to 460ci. not cc, half the price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbrown8439 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 3k for an oe stock block thats spendyDart , any size you like up to 460ci. not cc, half the price Not when you consider you are getting a factory block that will hold 1500 RWHP. When was the last time you priced an aluminum Dart block? http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?Ntt=dart&N=700+400333+4294908331+115+4294839078&NeXID=5&Ntk=KeywordSearch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted March 30, 2009 Author Share Posted March 30, 2009 AI97: The 351w in my Cobra R was last rebuilt in 1998. It has one full season of champioship caliber SCCA T1 racing on it, 28k of street use, and I am in my 3rd season of racing it, which includes running at least a couple 3 hour enduros a season. my current dyno sheet has 371tq to the wheels. That means carrying at least 3339lbs to race legal in AI. I dont get 7k rpm's, but I don't need it. I am leaning toward the 3v. With the right cams, cnc heads, the right calibration and long tubes 350whp seems doable. That said, the long term ticket is going to be the 5L cammer. Ford will have one in a production car no later than 2011. That will effectively make the current FR500C/Koni Challenge engine legal for AI properly restricted for power to weight ratio rules. That might result in an increase in the cost of playing. We will see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST#97 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 3k for an oe stock block thats spendyDart , any size you like up to 460ci. not cc, half the price Not when you consider you are getting a factory block that will hold 1500 RWHP. And what I consider a superior oiling and cooling setup over a windsor. If the LSX motors could fix their oiling ( I am not that familiar with them other than what our Vette students deal with), it might be the ticket as well....but lot's of parts to spend money on to get it into a mustang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGZOSTD Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I like my mod motor , my 06 was broken in at Thunder Hill's long straights . 3 yrs of tt and other abuse nothing but oil changes . I would love to see a 1500hp mod motor , or any motor for that mater, make it through an Iron event . Don't think it will happen They are heavy 100lb over a iron 302 . and the alum. Dart is cool 80lbs lighter and good for AIX at 5k .You can't argue money with cams costing $750, intakes at about $800 for a Logan .even the headers are costly. The great thing is you can spent your money anywhere you want . I already have an engine built (been hiding from me in the 66)all it needs is dry sump and a Jerico. The Mod and trans are going into a better home with 10k on the clock. I'm told the 3v has the best heads so I would roll toward that direction if I was to build one . The big problem in my mind with these is your stuck with very little to go in the bore x stroke ratios . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nape Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I will ask the question I don't have the answer too but how many pushrod motors running 13:1 compression and have a usable power band from 3000 to 7000 and have lasted 4 seasons...without turning into pieces....? I would like to hear that answer to compare. Well, someone might try to make a comparison, but no one needs 13:1 compression with a pushrod motor to make AI power. We're only talking about 300+ RWHP and TQ. And who needs a 4000 RPM powerband? SHIFT! We're road racers... 4000 to 7000 is plenty with a stock T5. I have about $2500 in my unported factory AL headed, .030 over 305 small block Chevy and it put me within 3hp and 11ft-lbs of my limit on the first combination. Who would have thought out of a 2-bolt main, stock cast crank, cast pistons and some ARP rod bolts. Ford guys seem to like putting GM motors in their cars, when will we see an ol' small block in there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGZOSTD Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I like using what I have , I guess I could put my 502 Chevy that's sitting on the shop floor in the Mustang I have about 8 different combo's I could go with. But I'll keep this one all Ford . For aix a little more power would be nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST#97 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Well, someone might try to make a comparison, but no one needs 13:1 compression with a pushrod motor to make AI power. We're only talking about 300+ RWHP and TQ. And who needs a 4000 RPM powerband? SHIFT! We're road racers... 4000 to 7000 is plenty with a stock T5. I don't NEED 13:1 to make the power either. A cam/exhaust stock bore stroke mod motor can make peak AI numbers easily. It also has nothing to do with peak power...I like the broad area under my dinner table flat torque curve. As for shifting, I am considering going to 4.10's and shifting more. I have driven MANY 302 based cars and a lot of blown 03 cobras. My little motor feels more like the 03 motor with loads of low end torque. Oh, and that stock T5 is NOT something I want in my car....I have seen more of those break than I care to remember. The stock T56 in my car works great and will easily take the power of the 2010 powerplant I want to build...if all goes well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triagan Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I just wanted to let all of you know that I received many compliments from the CMC group and the other Thunder drivers about the AI group this weekend. You guys were gentleman on and off the track and I hope you decide to come back and play again. That rain was really something. Whew.....I am glad most everyone made it through. Kent Director CMC/2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Corkran Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Oops. Kent, I think you wanted to post one thread down. This is one of the "I Hate Your Motor" threads. Tell IFHLN to move it for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triagan Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Whoops.....just a dumb CMC driver. I will just repost it.......Colin may just screw it up worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nape Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Oh, and that stock T5 is NOT something I want in my car....I have seen more of those break than I care to remember. The stock T56 in my car works great and will easily take the power of the 2010 powerplant I want to build...if all goes well. I don't want it either, but it's what I've had so far. Hopefully, that'll change soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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