banderaz Posted July 28, 2010 Author Share Posted July 28, 2010 Lol, these rules are killing me. I've been doing math all week and Miata was the first thing to get crossed out on my list... now there is that reclass thing going on? According to my math, PTE eligible Miata 1.8 would have 16.15 Power/weight ratio with 19 points to spare and maximum allowed 139 horsepower. 7-10 points will go straight to the tires and there is no way to get 29whp with the remainder of points on a Miata... Neither there will be anything left for weight reduction and suspension. While B15 Sentra on the other hand is allowed to have 14.55 ratio, 25 points to spare, 183whp easily achievable with bolts-ons and gets 16-19 points left for tires / suspension / weight reduction. Sentra looked like an easier, cheaper, newer and more practical route. Lol, can I take an SRT-4, lower the boost and reclass it into TTF with maximum allowed power ration and 19 points to spare? That would be even simpler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1LapSRT Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 Lol, these rules are killing me. I've been doing math all week and Miata was the first thing to get crossed out on my list... now there is that reclass thing going on? According to my math, PTE eligible Miata 1.8 would have 16.15 Power/weight ratio with 19 points to spare and maximum allowed 139 horsepower. 7-10 points will go straight to the tires and there is no way to get 29whp with the remainder of points on a Miata... Neither there will be anything left for weight reduction and suspension. While B15 Sentra on the other hand is allowed to have 14.55 ratio, 25 points to spare, 183whp easily achievable with bolts-ons and gets 16-19 points left for tires / suspension / weight reduction. Sentra looked like an easier, cheaper, newer and more practical route. Lol, can I take an SRT-4, lower the boost and reclass it into TTF with maximum allowed power ration and 19 points to spare? That would be even simpler. I think that is allowed with the SRT-4 but they make you take off both of the rear tires! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 dude, you can't mix & match - pick one: - use the hp/weight reclass you get from Greg and you're stuck with that minimum weight and that maximum hp but you can get there however you want, and can spend the remainder of the points on tires, aero, suspension, etc. - use the points method and so long as you're under the cap you can move around more on your min weights, what power you're at, and you can use points across any and all categories. Some cars work out better with option 1, some with option 2. The adjusted hp/weight limits are there as a final check and balance for both of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banderaz Posted July 28, 2010 Author Share Posted July 28, 2010 I'm still confused about the reclass, considering same Sentra as an example: Option 2: PTF** + 25 points, 145whp, 2710 minimum weight. Few breathing bolt-ons can get me into TTE with Max allowed 182whp with roughly 17 points remaining and 215mm tires from the base class. Option 1: If all the bolts on are already there to get me to 2710lb / 182whp. If I assume correctly I would be re-classed into TTE with 235tires. But how many points will I have left? dude, you can't mix & match - pick one: - use the hp/weight reclass you get from Greg and you're stuck with that minimum weight and that maximum hp but you can get there however you want, and can spend the remainder of the points on tires, aero, suspension, etc. - use the points method and so long as you're under the cap you can move around more on your min weights, what power you're at, and you can use points across any and all categories. Some cars work out better with option 1, some with option 2. The adjusted hp/weight limits are there as a final check and balance for both of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 I can probably illustrate easier with my car / points setup I had to send in what I wanted my min weight to be to Greg, and he gave me a maximum whp for TTF* base class for my car. 2657lbs, 125whp (SAE), TTF* base class So by option 1: 2657lbs min weight, big penalties if under 125whp maximum, big penalties if over - but I can get there however I want +7 points from the asterix + 10 for Hoosiers + 1 for 225s with an "F" base class = 18 points, still within TTF. Final check - that adjusted hp/weight is ~21ish By Option 2: Car is listed at TTF* and 2657lbs, can be under that weight if I claim the points ahead of time No maximum whp so long as I'm within the maximum adjusted hp/weight for that particular class, but, I have to take points for power parts. +7 points from the asterix +10 for Hoosiers +1 for 225s with an "F" base class +2 points for the cat back exhaust I have currently = 20 points, over TTF by 1 point. Final check - the adjusted hp weight is ~21ish Obviously for my car it makes more sense to pick option 1. Other cars it might not, but you have to send in AT LEAST what the car is and either a min weight or a max whp for Greg to give you options. You can't choose them, your regional guy can't choose them, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banderaz Posted July 28, 2010 Author Share Posted July 28, 2010 Thank you, its much more comprehensible now. Last question remains, can I start building the car for Option 2, are the rules set in stone? Or Greg has the final word on where the car ends up even if its built by rules? I can probably illustrate easier with my car / points setup I had to send in what I wanted my min weight to be to Greg, and he gave me a maximum whp for TTF* base class for my car. 2657lbs, 125whp (SAE), TTF* base class So by option 1: 2657lbs min weight, big penalties if under 125whp maximum, big penalties if over - but I can get there however I want +7 points from the asterix + 10 for Hoosiers + 1 for 225s with an "F" base class = 18 points, still within TTF. Final check - that adjusted hp/weight is ~21ish By Option 2: Car is listed at TTF* and 2657lbs, can be under that weight if I claim the points ahead of time No maximum whp so long as I'm within the maximum adjusted hp/weight for that particular class, but, I have to take points for power parts. +7 points from the asterix +10 for Hoosiers +1 for 225s with an "F" base class +2 points for the cat back exhaust I have currently = 20 points, over TTF by 1 point. Final check - the adjusted hp weight is ~21ish Obviously for my car it makes more sense to pick option 1. Other cars it might not, but you have to send in AT LEAST what the car is and either a min weight or a max whp for Greg to give you options. You can't choose them, your regional guy can't choose them, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 nah, for option 2 the only way it could change is if the points value for any of your mods changes. It does happen but its rare, and (usually) done in the offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlkGt3 Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 I can probably illustrate easier with my car / points setup I had to send in what I wanted my min weight to be to Greg, and he gave me a maximum whp for TTF* base class for my car. 2657lbs, 125whp (SAE), TTF* base class So by option 1: 2657lbs min weight, big penalties if under 125whp maximum, big penalties if over - but I can get there however I want +7 points from the asterix + 10 for Hoosiers + 1 for 225s with an "F" base class = 18 points, still within TTF. Final check - that adjusted hp/weight is ~21ish By Option 2: Car is listed at TTF* and 2657lbs, can be under that weight if I claim the points ahead of time No maximum whp so long as I'm within the maximum adjusted hp/weight for that particular class, but, I have to take points for power parts. +7 points from the asterix +10 for Hoosiers +1 for 225s with an "F" base class +2 points for the cat back exhaust I have currently = 20 points, over TTF by 1 point. Final check - the adjusted hp weight is ~21ish Obviously for my car it makes more sense to pick option 1. Other cars it might not, but you have to send in AT LEAST what the car is and either a min weight or a max whp for Greg to give you options. You can't choose them, your regional guy can't choose them, etc. Ken, Not sure about 1 thing. If you get a reclass by Greg, ie E36M3 @ 2950#'s and 260whp = TTB why couldn't you use excess points for further weight reduction as long as you stay within the hp to weight for the class. ie springs shocks sways Xbrace is +10 points Hoosiers+ 10 265 tire to 225 tire -10 points this leaves 9 points before going to TTA. I could use those 9 points to drop 125 #'s. Still would be 10.87 #'s per hp. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 Here's the quote from the email: Your '94 Toyota MR2 2.2L with a maximum of 125 rwhp on a Dynojet, and minimum competition weight of 2657 lbs, will have a new base class of PTF*/TTF* (seven points). Your new base tire size is 215mm. You will not need to assess modification points for power mods or weight reduction. However, all other modifications, including transmission and LSD, that are not standard items on a base trim '94 Toyota MR2 2.2L must be assessed points. You must be compliant with the above listed maximum Dynojet hp and minimum competition weight during any tech inspection. Section 6.5.1 seems to me to state you're locked into that weight - in this case 2657lbs (3rd paragraph, this is a copy/paste) Once a vehicle is re-classed based on Dyno testing and its minimum competition weight, anOfficial re-classing e-mail will be sent to the competitor, stating the new base class, the new base tire size, and the maximum Dyno horsepower and minimum competition weight limits, as well as any other specific limitations for that particular re-classification. The competitor must include a copy of the Official re-classing e-mail, along with the certified Dyno report when submitting the TT Car Classification Form to the Regional TT Director before competition. But that wouldn't be the first time I've read something differently from how it was intended (emphasis added by me by the way) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlkGt3 Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 Section 6.5.1 seems to me to state you're locked into that weight - in this case 2657lbs (3rd paragraph, this is a copy/paste) Once a vehicle is re-classed based on Dyno testing and its minimum competition weight, anOfficial re-classing e-mail will be sent to the competitor, stating the new base class, the new base tire size, and the maximum Dyno horsepower and minimum competition weight limits, as well as any other specific limitations for that particular re-classification. The competitor must include a copy of the Official re-classing e-mail, along with the certified Dyno report when submitting the TT Car Classification Form to the Regional TT Director before competition. But that wouldn't be the first time I've read something differently from how it was intended (emphasis added by me by the way) Ken, I understand where you are coming from. All cars have a Base or Minimum competition weight either from base classing, reclass by Greg, or SUR classing. I guess it would be a question for Greg to answer. I didn't get the car I wrote Greg about so it doesn't effect me @ this time. Peter WEIGHT REDUCTION: Weight reduction points are based on the actual vehicle minimum competition weight (with driver). Removal and lightening of non-essential parts is permitted unless stated otherwise in these rules. Modification of the OEM frame, sub-frame, and floor pan are not permitted (see 6.3.2). Removal or lightening of engine parts is permitted only as listed elsewhere in these rules: If the base weight used for base classing purposes (above in 6.3.2) minus minimum competition weight (with driver*) is greater than: 5 lbs +1, 20 lbs +2, 35 lbs +3, 50 lbs +4, 65 lbs +5, 80 lbs +6, 95 lbs +7, 110 lbs +8, 125 lbs +9, 140 lbs +10, 155 lbs +11, 170 lbs +12, 185 lbs +13, 200 lbs +14, 215 lbs +15, 230 lbs +16, 245 lbs +17, 260 lbs +18, 275 lbs +19, 290 lbs +20, 305 lbs +21, 320 lbs +22, 335 lbs +23, 350 lbs +24, 365 lbs +25, 380 lbs +26, 395 lbs +27, 410 lbs +28, 425 lbs +29, 440 lbs +30, 455 lbs +31, 460 lbs +32, 475 lbs +33, 490 lbs +34, 505 lbs +35, etc… *Minimum competition weight is the vehicle’s lightest weight with the driver and safety gear, during any competition session. Any driver/team who’s vehicle at impound does not meet the minimum weight that they have declared on their car classification sheet will be disqualified and may lose all accrued points for the season if the number of modification points based on the lighter actual weight puts the car in a higher competition class Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt94130 Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 Oh wait. Did you say that a miata with a supercharger and hoosiers would never fit into TTE/PTE? You might say that but you would be wrong. We have a car in the Mid-Atlantic region that just got that reclassifiation. Hmm, I got a '96 Miata but got 130/2300. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awdracer Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 JT, how did you get to 130 whp? Did you dyno class or by points? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt94130 Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 Oh, that was my reclass. I got 130/2300 or 134/2355. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awdracer Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 What did you do to the car to get to 134 whp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 Oh, that was my reclass. I got 130/2300 or 134/2355. When I was running in TTE, my re-class letter was also for 134rwhp / 2355lbs. This was for a 1993 chassis with a 1.8 liter engine swap out of a 2000. I was able to get to 130-133rwhp (114-117 rwt) with the following components: 2000 BP-4W engine (junkyard engine w/35k miles) Megasquirt PnP ECU Injectors from a 1995 Miata MSD RPM switch to control VICS Toyota COP conversion Fuji Racing 4-1 header, cat delete, 2.5" exhaust piping with Magnaflow muffler Intake was stock from the 2000 with a K&N filter insert Before installing the Megasquirt, I was running the engine with stock 1.6 induction (w/'95 injectors) for a year or two and was able to make 125-128rwhp: http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=230905&highlight=engine+tuning HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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