drivinhardz06 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I'm sure there is some car out there that has soft bushings in their links rather than ball joints, and so replacing them would increase the effective rate of the bar. kinda like a delrin sway bar bushing (which is a free mod) if you can B&B an engine for a spec or restricted class, I just see trying to get weight jacking out of the system as "B&Bing" the chassis. IMHO a bushing material change is way more of a "mod" to the roll stiffness. it's just a thought...I'll submit it next year and they can tear it up and toss it in the trash can if they like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I'm sure there is some car out there that has soft bushings in their links rather than ball joints, and so replacing them would increase the effective rate of the bar. Junk links like these are common on my Mustangs: Note that the top bushing and retaining nut are missing in the top photo. The bushings are installed on the link and are located above and below the flat end of the swaybar, while being retained with a nut and washer. The same goes for the A-arm end. I would love to remove these OEM bind-prone links and convert them to free-moving ball joint style links, but guess what? It will cost points because it will be a performance improvement. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z06 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 @Mark Oh yes, the joy of an old Mustang frontend. Not sure where to start with weak links associated with that design. When I ran AI/AIX I ended up tossing it for a Griggs SLA and other Griggs stuff. Car turned a corner after that, literally. But then the car's not TTA at that point...my old car is being run in the SE region or maybe he wrecked it. Silver '95 GT. I'll stop bitching. It all evens out when we all play by the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 David, I am being the devil's advocate here (more or less, mostly less), but you STILL have not proven that this is a safety related item just because it broke. When a sway bar or end-link breaks, at the most your car is suddenly going to push or get loose, but not significantly so. A sudden breakage can occur on ANY part and I could use your logic that ANY part breakage could cause me to have an accident. By your logic, I could upgrade my springs because they might break and cause me to wreck. I could upgrade my pistons and rods because they could break and lock my rear wheels. So could my tranny and rearend. I should be able put aero on the front of my car because it gets lift and that is unsafe. See my point? -Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I should be able put aero on the front of my car because it gets lift and that is unsafe. if they'd just drop that * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z06 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 @Kevin I saw the point several post ago and backed off the position of safety. All cars have a flaw or weakness. It's up to us as racers or track enthusiast to maintain our cars and replace parts as needed. But if you wanna play devils advocate I'm your huckleberry. . Had the endlink broke while I was in turn 1 at MSRH, I would have ended up in the wall. That's how bad the car pushed. The high speed corner on the back straight alerted me to the problem. The car just kept going straight. But enough of the speculation or what if's. We put lots of faith in our parts or "Jesus Nuts." The moral of the story for me is if we as driver feel a problem, look for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I would love to remove these OEM bind-prone links and convert them to free-moving ball joint style links, but guess what? It will cost points because it will be a performance improvement. Mark - Those really suck - I had no idea! I would be in favor of adding end links to the no points modification list. In several other rule sets, they are "free". I do not have a dog in this fight since I'm already taking +2 for my front anti-sway bar, and if I ever go back to stock to get back the 2 points, the OEM Miata end links are pretty nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z06 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 @ Joshua That is what's so appealing about driving a Mustang and beating people on the track. It's such an underdog car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 @ Joshua That is what's so appealing about driving a Mustang and beating people on the track. It's such an underdog car. ... except in the straights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z06 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 that's what some people have thought in their high dollar cars and been humiliated by my $6k car. '95 Mustang with a 351W and vortech T-trim. They didn't have much to say when finished with them. Their mouth was left hanging open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 @ Joshua That is what's so appealing about driving a Mustang and beating people on the track. It's such an underdog car. ... except in the straights I wasn't exactly gaining on you down the back straight at PBIR in December, you know. Maybe taking off the Flowbastids and putting the stock mufflers back on really did kill some power, although my speed at the end of that straight seemed to be the same as before. That's why I like Homestead...4 parallel dragstrips connected by some corners. Stand on gas early, stand on brakes late, hack my way through the corner, and repeat. Mark (trades punches with Joshua and his supercharged TTD Miata) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnsafeAtAnySpd Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Interesting topic. I hadn't even thought of this. With CTS-Vs it is common to swap to OEM Z06 endlinks when lowering the car, as the stockers have a tendency to break. Hmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clydesdale Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Do you need to take points for a broken endlink? I think I just found a way to disconnect my rear sway on track-- honestly Greg it was connected when I went out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Do you need to take points for a broken endlink? That's actually a very interesting question... what happens if a bumper falls off, an endlink breaks, etc? Is that a "mod"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obzezzed350 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Do you need to take points for a broken endlink? That's actually a very interesting question... what happens if a bumper falls off, an endlink breaks, etc? Is that a "mod"? Should be... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnsafeAtAnySpd Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Do you need to take points for a broken endlink? That's actually a very interesting question... what happens if a bumper falls off, an endlink breaks, etc? Is that a "mod"? lol. Somebody should take a car that the body panels add no structure like a Fiero and strip them all off and track it like that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z06 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Do you need to take points for a broken endlink? I think I just found a way to disconnect my rear sway on track-- honestly Greg it was connected when I went out. I took last place points that weekend from my on track modification! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 put new stock sway bar end links on my car before this last VIR event, jacked the car up Saturday to find both rubber bushings completely separated from the end link and the sway bar was disconnected on both sides. so +1 for allowing aftermarket end links. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awdracer Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Do you need to take points for a broken endlink? That's actually a very interesting question... what happens if a bumper falls off, an endlink breaks, etc? Is that a "mod"? A guy got DQ'd this weekend in the MA region at VIR after tech in Spec3 b/c he was 5 lbs under weight. The funny thing was that his rear bumper cover had been torn off during the race and I'm sure that weighs more than 5 lb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 That sucks the scales at VIR are pretty inconsistent. Wish they would've used the long acre ones, i was showing 15 lbs or so low compared to the scales we have at the shop when i weighed after the warmup Saturday. Last year i remember them being as much as 80lbs off one event, July if i remember correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 That sucks the scales at VIR are pretty inconsistent. Wish they would've used the long acre ones, i was showing 15 lbs or so low compared to the scales we have at the shop when i weighed after the warmup Saturday. Last year i remember them being as much as 80lbs off one event, July if i remember correctly. Yeah that's kind of BS. I mean I know you need to plan some margin of error, but to be under becuase your bumper got ripped off really sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awdracer Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 put new stock sway bar end links on my car before this last VIR event, jacked the car up Saturday to find both rubber bushings completely separated from the end link and the sway bar was disconnected on both sides. so +1 for allowing aftermarket end links. I don't think that NASA is going to allow aftermarket links. When a car is lowered, the stock swaybar can be pre-loaded which (as you know) is not a good thing. Preload can cause strange handling characteristics and perhaps broken/overloaded end links because the bar can be forced to operate outside of it's intended range. My opinion is that Greg isn't going to allow someone the ability to fix that wart without taking points. My point of reference on this is that one of the PTE M-A Nissans had a snap-spinning problem. I had a look at the rear end and found that the mounting brackets for the aftermarket rear bar was installed at the wrong angle where it met the spherical bearing on the end link. The bar was also pre-loaded at rest. All we had to do was fix the bracket angle and zero out the pre-load to solve the problem. Now his car just pushes all the time instead of understeer followed by random uncontrollable oversteer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awdracer Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 That sucks the scales at VIR are pretty inconsistent. Wish they would've used the long acre ones, i was showing 15 lbs or so low compared to the scales we have at the shop when i weighed after the warmup Saturday. Last year i remember them being as much as 80lbs off one event, July if i remember correctly. Yeah that's kind of BS. I mean I know you need to plan some margin of error, but to be under becuase your bumper got ripped off really sucks. He definitely cut it too close. He didn't get the 5lb allowance because they had already weighed the Spec3 guys several times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awdracer Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 That sucks the scales at VIR are pretty inconsistent. Wish they would've used the long acre ones, i was showing 15 lbs or so low compared to the scales we have at the shop when i weighed after the warmup Saturday. Last year i remember them being as much as 80lbs off one event, July if i remember correctly. They were. In fact they were broken and closed for the rest of the event. My strategy is to roll thru the scales after practice on Sat morning. I NEVER leave my first weigh-in to chance just in case the scales are hosed. My weight is pretty stable, though and I keep about +20 at all times anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) I do like the fact that bars and endlinks aren't seperate points. I run T1 racing bars with upgraded Powergrid links. Much nicer than the heim-jointed links that come with the T1 bars. It has a shaft in the middle that is reverse threaded on one end so I can adjust the link length w/o disconnecting it from either end. Plus they're silent and have a greater ROM.... no clanking like you get from a heimjoint at the end of it's range of motion. Edited February 24, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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