TTF (and PTF) in 2012 At Nationals. Who is in?

[CWeber]

This year or next year? you show up for PTF right now for this year.. lol

[neon982004]

This year. I loved racing the TTE Civic at Grattan. That was fun and a race. Mike is good, the car is great, but its not fun.....

[neon982004]

This year. I loved racing the TTE Civic at Grattan. That was fun and a race. Mike is good, the car is great, but its not fun.....

 

 

If Im gonna get crushed....might as well have a good time doing it. Who has a spare Vette or Evo they wanna lend

[Smike]

This year. I loved racing the TTE Civic at Grattan. That was fun and a race. Mike is good, the car is great, but its not fun.....

 

 

If Im gonna get crushed....might as well have a good time doing it. Who has a spare Vette or Evo they wanna lend

 

Grattan was the proving grounds for my TTC car. I'll be at Nationals. Car to be determined.

 

I am with Missy on being 4s behind with everyone fighting for 2nd. She has suspension but no power or tire width. I have power but no tire or suspension. Which is the point of F. TIght racing under a second of each other. G20 has power, wider tires, and suspension - nah, I'll pass. I'd rather give the contingency kudos to another class.

[cucamelsmd15]

congrats you guys.

 

Sad to say that I am officially out this year. Even if I was hired tomorrow the damage to the racing budget has been done. See you at Miller or whatever track it will be at in 2013

 

You and I both.

 

Ill cheer Patrick on from the cheap seats.

[neon982004]

congrats you guys.

 

Sad to say that I am officially out this year. Even if I was hired tomorrow the damage to the racing budget has been done. See you at Miller or whatever track it will be at in 2013

 

You and I both.

 

Ill cheer Patrick on from the cheap seats.

 

 

GO PATRICK GO!...ps also sign up lol

[CWeber]

This year. I loved racing the TTE Civic at Grattan. That was fun and a race. Mike is good, the car is great, but its not fun.....

 

 

That PTE/TTE civic has the Grattan Track record at around 1:30 so the driver this past weekend simply wasn't as fast in it ..it is actually technically faster than the g20! <--- which it should be being an E car instead of an F car anyway!

 

Performance Touring E Bradley Allen Honda Civic 1:30.192 06/12/11

 

and

 

Time Trial E Brian Makse Honda Civic 1:30.391 06/12/11

 

vs. the slower G20 F record of:

 

Time Trial F Michael Weber Infiniti G20 1:32.735 06/11/11

[neon982004]

Whether the driver is good bad or ugly has no difference on the fact that I had a great time being in an actual race. It has been years with Mike around that I havent had a prayer (whether its car or driver related). Nothing is set in stone yet, but it is possible that I may switch classes to actually be involved in a race.

[CWeber]

Whether the driver is good bad or ugly has no difference on the fact that I had a great time being in an actual race. It has been years with Mike around that I havent had a prayer (whether its car or driver related). Nothing is set in stone yet, but it is possible that I may switch classes to actually be involved in a race.

 

 

Fun factor is what it is all about obviously!

 

If it stops being fun, you shouldn't be out there!

[neon982004]

Exactly! Now you understand the dispute of what class to run at Nationals!

 

When a car holds all the TTF track records for Midwest and Great Lakes and no one comes close....no fun anymore.

[Smike]

This year. I loved racing the TTE Civic at Grattan. That was fun and a race. Mike is good, the car is great, but its not fun.....

 

That PTE/TTE civic has the Grattan Track record at around 1:30 so the driver this past weekend simply wasn't as fast in it ..it is actually technically faster than the g20! <--- which it should be being an E car instead of an F car anyway!

 

Performance Touring E Bradley Allen Honda Civic 1:30.192 06/12/11

and

Time Trial E Brian Makse Honda Civic 1:30.391 06/12/11

vs. the slower G20 F record of:

Time Trial F Michael Weber Infiniti G20 1:32.735 06/11/11

 

So are you saying now that both you and SMike not going to run PTF/TTF at Nationals if the G20 is signing up for it? We still might actually change that entry to the Sentra instead if it gets finished in time and checked out as track worthy but that has yet to be determined just like upclassing and paying the extra $300 for the TTF entry as well has yet to be determined as a 'do it' or not option.

 

So are going to find another class to run next year when the g20 shows up again for Great Lakes events to gun for new PTF records?

 

Exactly, thanks for admitting that the G20 is not classed correctly. Which is precisely our point - the G20 is incorrectly classed.

 

Missy and I are exactly level in times - to 0.5s this whole season. She has 14 points to use. Spent them on suspension, 205 slicks, but lacks power mods. I have 4 points to use, no suspension, just some power mods, and I have to run street tires. My P/W is dead on for TTF. She can out handle my car. I can out power her. In the end its a fair race.

 

The G20 has more power, less weight, more suspension, and 225 r-comps. You out power me. Out corner her. That car is not in the right class. Must feel awfully nice bringing a cannon to a knife fight. That really shows driver talent too (sarcasm).

 

EDIT: Not that it is for you to know, for next season both Missy and I are looking at different cars and classes.

[CWeber]

 

Exactly, thanks for admitting that the G20 is not classed correctly. Which is precisely our point - the G20 is incorrectly classed.

 

Missy and I are exactly level in times - to 0.5s this whole season. She has 14 points to use. Spent them on suspension, 205 slicks, but lacks power mods. I have 4 points to use, no suspension, just some power mods, and I have to run street tires. My P/W is dead on for TTF. She can out handle my car. I can out power her. In the end its a fair race.

 

The G20 has more power, less weight, more suspension, and 225 r-comps. You out power me. Out corner her. That car is not in the right class. Must feel awfully nice bringing a cannon to a knife fight. That really shows driver talent too (sarcasm).

 

Because driver skill has no basis on anything here, right? It is always about the car and never the driver? Heck, Mike is almost always at least 2 seconds faster (sometimes 4 seconds faster) in my own Spec Miata for the same day, same track because the bottom line is he is a better driver than me! (heck, best I could do was a 1:36.2 at Grattan while Mike got a 1:33.9 in TTE this past weekend in my spec miata) With that said, I'm am confident I would be slower than Mike if I drove the G20 instead of him at this point.

 

How your factory rated 170hp SVT has less power than our factory rated 140hp g20 is a mystery to me though!

 

I guess you best protest the civic as well who got 2nd place last year at nationals who was gunning for Mike and might have even done so if his engine didn't crap out because he kept getting faster each time he was out there until he broke!

 

EDIT: I have a potential happy solution for you though because our intent is to sell the g20 after Nationals this year since we'll have the Sentra finished by then so you can buy it and go after all of Mike's records and set new ones with the same car if you like!

[Smike]

 

Exactly, thanks for admitting that the G20 is not classed correctly. Which is precisely our point - the G20 is incorrectly classed.

 

Missy and I are exactly level in times - to 0.5s this whole season. She has 14 points to use. Spent them on suspension, 205 slicks, but lacks power mods. I have 4 points to use, no suspension, just some power mods, and I have to run street tires. My P/W is dead on for TTF. She can out handle my car. I can out power her. In the end its a fair race.

 

The G20 has more power, less weight, more suspension, and 225 r-comps. You out power me. Out corner her. That car is not in the right class. Must feel awfully nice bringing a cannon to a knife fight. That really shows driver talent too (sarcasm).

 

Because driver skill has no basis on anything here, right? It is always about the car and never the driver? Heck, Mike is almost always at least 2 seconds faster (sometimes 4 seconds faster) in my own Spec Miata for the same day, same track because the bottom line is he is a better driver than me! (heck, best I could do was a 1:36.2 at Grattan while Mike got a 1:33.9 in TTE this past weekend in my spec miata) With that said, I'm am confident I would be slower than Mike if I drove the G20 instead of him at this point.

 

How your factory rated 170hp SVT has less power than our factory rated 140hp g20 is a mystery to me though!

 

I guess you best protest the civic as well who got 2nd place last year at nationals who was gunning for Mike and might have even done so if his engine didn't crap out because he kept getting faster each time he was out there until he broke!

 

Driver skill does not mean the car should be able to pull cars on the straight when both exit with the same speeds. Whether you can drive or not is not what we are talking about right now.

 

I'll save you the trouble of asking for my TT sheet. SVTF TTF+14: dyno re-classed -- I make 155whp and min weight is 2825. My P/W is dead on for F class. Only mods I have room for now is the LSD +3 and Dunlop Z1 tires +2. TTF+19.

 

List out all the G20s modification points, dyno sheet, and race weight.

[CWeber]

List out all the G20s modification points, dyno sheet, and race weight.

 

And where is your dyno sheet?

 

You are welcome to request looking at Mike's TT sheet at any event of course but....

 

I will let Mike list out all the g20 stuff because it is no secret and he knows it best (the car was called into impound after almost every session at Nationals and gone through with a fine tooth comb to assure it met class sheet properly though!)

 

I am happy to post the dyno sheet from last year though since I happen to have that which was a whopping 131whp with only 115 torque at 2740lbs and this also passed without issue on the Dyno at Nationals.

 

Here you go:

 

[CWeber]

 

I'll save you the trouble of asking for my TT sheet. SVTF TTF+14: dyno re-classed -- I make 155whp and min weight is 2825. My P/W is dead on for F class. Only mods I have room for now is the LSD +3 and Dunlop Z1 tires +2. TTF+19.

 

 

Looks to me like you have more power unless I am missing something here?

[neon982004]

Looks to me like Im screwed regardless

[Smike]

List out all the G20s modification points, dyno sheet, and race weight.

 

And where is your dyno sheet?

 

You are welcome to request looking at Mike's TT sheet at any event of course but....

 

I will let Mike list out all the g20 stuff because it is no secret and he knows it best (the car was called into impound after almost every session at Nationals and gone through with a fine tooth comb to assure it met class sheet properly though!)

 

I am happy to post the dyno sheet from last year though since I happen to have that which was a whopping 131whp with only 115 torque at 2740lbs and this also passed without issue on the Dyno at Nationals.

 

Here you go:

 

 

More weight and less modifiers.

 

Does not change the fact that the base class is incorrect. If it started as a TTF car you'd have a hell of a lot less modifications. We both know that suspension and wider r-comps will allow a car to carry much more speed.

 

Here you go:

[Mike W.]

Base class: TTG/PTG

Base Weight: 2877

 

Min Comp weight: 2738lbs (Car was never below 2760lbs at nationals, I was weighed after every session)

fwhp: 132hp

Weight to horsepower: 20.7 to 1 (at nationals 20.9 to 1)

 

Points

139lbs under weight +9

Suspension +5

added LSD +3

Header +2

Cat removal +1

Modified exhaust +2

Tire compound +10

tire width 225 +7

Total points +39

Competition Class PTF/TTF

 

Also I asked for a dyno reclass after nationals and here is what I got.

 

Your '95 Infiniti G20 with a maximum 135 fwhp on a Dynojet, and a minimum competition weight with driver of 2700 lbs, will have a new TT/PT base class of TTF/PTF. Your new base tire size is 215mm. You will not assess modification points for Section B weight reduction or Section C. engine mods. However, all other modifications, including transmission and LSD, that are not standard items on a base trim '95 Infiniti G20 must be assessed points. You must be compliant with the above listed maximum Dynojet hp and minimum competition weight during any tech inspection.

 

Tire width 225 +1

tire compound +10

suspension +5

lsd +3

 

Total +19 with dyno reclass still PTF/TTF

 

So, I can run exactly the same mods and be lighter with the dyno reclass.

[neon982004]

Im gonna bow out of this argument gracefully. I will not strand PTF but may not run if there are enough cars.

[Smike]

Forgetting your p/w modifiers.

 

Try that car without 225 r-comps. I'll give you the suspension and LSD. Then you'd be where Missy and I are at.

 

Like we've said, no fun = no race. Good luck having PT/TT F.

[CWeber]

We have run 205s in front. Because we lack the ability to get any decent negative camber in front, the 205 edges get chewed up and corded too quickly and easily unfortunately.

 

Back in June 2009 at Grattan was pretty much the 1st time Mike ever ran the g20 with NASA and his 1st time at Grattan in the dry with the g20 (I was running the g20 in 2008) and the 1st day was on used BFG R1 205 50 15s and he got a 1:34 in F class. Here are those results:

 

http://www.nasagreatlakes.com/docs/2009/Grattan_June_day1.pdf

[Mike W.]

Forgetting your p/w modifiers.

 

Try that car without 225 r-comps. I'll give you the suspension and LSD. Then you'd be where Missy and I are at.

 

Like we've said, no fun = no race. Good luck having PT/TT F.

 

My modified p/w is 22.43 to 1 (well into F which is why I listed my actual p/w)

weight -0.5

4 door +0.4

fwd +1.0

tire size 245 or less +0.8

 

So 20.73 -0.5 +0.4 +1.0 +0.8 = 22.43

[Smike]

Chris - R1s are r-comps.

 

Missy ran a 1:37.620 last weekend on 205 r-comps. Her and I have been within 1s all of this season. Using that history I would have been in the 1.36-38 range as well (on Dunlop 215 Z1 Star Specs).

 

You can go ahead and think that I can't drive. But I have faith that she can use up the car to 11/10ths.

[kbrew8991]

When a car holds all the TTF track records for Midwest and Great Lakes and no one comes close....no fun anymore.

It's not too hard to collect most of the track records in a region in TTF & PTF, especially if only a couple people run in the class. (I used to hold all the SE records in TTF, and now hold all of the TX ones. PTF is a different story, usually 5-10 great drivers every weekend)

 

I've seen the times they've posted for Mid-O, they're stout - but I know I can get pretty close

 

Up your car prep, try different setups, use your data aq better to see where you can go faster, hire a coach.

 

Switching classes just means you'll get beat by some other group of people.

 

No offense intended.

[CWeber]

^ yup, and Missy is on her way to setting all the Great Lakes PTF records this year! She has already set a MidO and Grattan PTF record and it is only June!