Spec Iron ABS ?

[Al F.]

Work in progress on this brake parts issue. Expect an update soon.

[Burnett]

Careful what you wish for. ABS is great if it all works together, dont ask to get rid of it.

 

Shocks; there are very few shocks that allow small diameter springs that dont have external canisters. So unless you want spec springs make sure you ask for the right ones. One example in link below, Im sure there are others;

http://www.steeda.com/store/steeda-s197-mustang-coil-over-system.html

 

Maybe Tokico would like to be an associate sponsor........

 

Robin

[Al F.]

When we were discussing allowable components with Ford we realized that there was nothing on Ford's shelf that would properly handle the spring rates we want drivers to be able to run. We didnt want the cars to be as soft as the existing Ford options would dictate. However, we didnt want to hold up the whole works just for this, hence the somewhat open nature of the shock rule which is right out of CMC. Discussions with parties interested in becoming a class sponsor and providing a spec shock package are happening. If we can pull it off quickly we will. If not we'll leave the rule as is for some time.

[stevepoe]

Careful what you wish for. ABS is great if it all works together, dont ask to get rid of it.

 

Shocks; there are very few shocks that allow small diameter springs that dont have external canisters. So unless you want spec springs make sure you ask for the right ones. One example in link below, Im sure there are others;

http://www.steeda.com/store/steeda-s197-mustang-coil-over-system.html

 

Maybe Tokico would like to be an associate sponsor........

 

Robin

 

Nice sponsor plug Burnett

[bluefirepony]

Super. Purpose of the post achieved...need the HCU - rules being changed to reflect it. Shocking on this forum

Not sure who asked - or maybe I misread - but there is night and day btw the stock module/HCU and the FR500 combo...just crazy how stable it felt under heavy heavy braking.

 

I was actually going to post a seperate shock/spring thread but didn't want to agitate too much.

Since it's been introduced..yes, spec package - definately. Frankly the Tokico idea is not bad....it's what I've been running since day one, played with different springs brands and rates and added a Ground Control coil over kit a few years ago. Not ideal, but cheap cheap cheap and dare I say reliable.

Either that or see if AST wants to play ball. Or someone else...but spec it.

[68Cobra]

OK Boys... Good thread!

 

If we're going to be a Spec Class, then there should be a Spec Shock & Spring Pkg. There should be NO tolerance. No variable. Lets all drive EXACTLY the same hardware & whoever sets it up & drives it the best WINS! (from a guy who just spent money on his CMC car to add front coil-overs & is willing to start over)

 

I also agree w/Chris... lets not allow ABS. This seems to be an expensive & contriversial subject & will allow for a varience in the performance of our cars, perhaps based on how deep your pockets are to buy all the optimum equipment... GT-500, FR-500,etc.... There's probably not a legal SI car in the country right now. Why add the expense & hassle? Just ban ABS efore everyone goes & spends $$ & find a way to make sure you can police it.(make it obvious it is disabled & cannot be easily operational) Saves us money & work!

 

As for the shocks... This is a FORD sponsored series, but I think Robin has a good idea. The Tokico is a good double-adjustible shock. STEEDA has thrown money at NASA the past couple of years at Nationals. I'd bet they would be willing to keep sponsoring our series if we could allow them to supply the Tokico's. I'd be happy to make contact w/them & confirm if you think we could sell this to FORD.

 

As a recap of my thoughts, There should be no variable at all to our cars. EVERY car should run EXACTLY the same parts & may the best Team win!

 

See ya from the top of the podium! :<)

 

James Ray

#68 NASA-SE

[CF03GT]

Careful what you wish for. ABS is great if it all works together, dont ask to get rid of it.

 

 

Robin

 

Im more concerned with parity than (perceived/actual/future) advantage. Lets leave the driving up to the drivers in a spec "drivers" class.

 

Also, it sounds as though SI will be allowing other makes/models in the future. I'd hate to scare others off because of the "FR abs unfair advantage" fear factor.

[D Algozine]

Also, it sounds as though SI will be allowing other makes/models in the future. I'd hate to scare others off because of the "FR abs unfair advantage" fear factor.

 

I don't ever see the FR ABS getting kicked. Look at the history of AI and Ford racing. Ford has spent too much in R&D and resourses to bring the FR ABS to market.

As for other makes and models getting in the class, I think it would be very cool, but I don't see it happening. Ford is the title sponsor, their cars, their parts. I don't see how another manufacturer fits into the plan, or even if it would ever be allowed. Besides no other manufacturer has the parts list, or apparently the interest.

[CF03GT]

Also, it sounds as though SI will be allowing other makes/models in the future. I'd hate to scare others off because of the "FR abs unfair advantage" fear factor.

 

I don't ever see the FR ABS getting kicked. Look at the history of AI and Ford racing. Ford has spent too much in R&D and resourses to bring the FR ABS to market.

As for other makes and models getting in the class, I think it would be very cool, but I don't see it happening. Ford is the title sponsor, their cars, their parts. I don't see how another manufacturer fits into the plan, or even if it would ever be allowed. Besides no other manufacturer has the parts list, or apparently the interest.

 

Reverse psychology for powers that be.. Nice.

 

I triple dog dare em!

[D Algozine]

Also, it sounds as though SI will be allowing other makes/models in the future. I'd hate to scare others off because of the "FR abs unfair advantage" fear factor.

 

I don't ever see the FR ABS getting kicked. Look at the history of AI and Ford racing. Ford has spent too much in R&D and resourses to bring the FR ABS to market.

As for other makes and models getting in the class, I think it would be very cool, but I don't see it happening. Ford is the title sponsor, their cars, their parts. I don't see how another manufacturer fits into the plan, or even if it would ever be allowed. Besides no other manufacturer has the parts list, or apparently the interest.

 

Reverse psychology for powers that be.. Nice.

 

I triple dog dare em!

 

Chris, funny stuff. I got a good chuckle. Its been a while since the triple dog dare has been used

No reverse psyc on my end. AI has become very much aligned with Ford racing the last several years. This new class is another progression of that relationship. I wouldn't expect it to change any time soon, however, fortune 500 companies have been known to drop and/or drastically change programs at the drop of a hat. Besides is amateur racing really the forum for manufacturers to square off against each other? There are plenty of pro-racing series where they can try to out spend each other.

If you watched the telecast of the National championship CMC race last year, you may have some insight as to where NASA is headed. The CMC race was run along with the Spec Nissan 350 class, and Nissan was a sponsor. So there was little to no coverage of some great racing throughout the whole CMC class. The coverage was mostly 3-4 z cars running around by themselves. But Nissan paid for the coverage, so they got it. I would hate to see more decissions made about money and sponsorship vs what grassroots amateur racing is all about. Time will tell.

[Racer91m]

I'm sitting here shaking my head. A whole new class was created to accomidate many of the requests that have been made by guys not running AI due to costs. NASA comes up with (what I consider to be) a great format and here we are talking about the Fn ABS again. WTF??? The parts are out there. You can own them for less that $500 if you look hard enough. Ask Steve Poe. He probably figured out a way to wheel and deal and get his parts for $0. Even if you go to the dealer, you're STILL cheaper than the cost of a set of tires. AND ABS saves cost on tires. Ask Anders how many sets of tires he's gone through just due to flat spotting. ABS makes sense! We'll all have the same setup. Even if not, you guys seem to think that the FR ABS stuff is some sort of wonder drug. Did you guys go brain dead? You realize you can accomplish nearly the exact same effect by going with a more agressive pad compound? Did you stop thinking when you heard ABS? Come on guys...

 

I am all for ABS from a cost savings standpoint. Let me make another point... How happy are you going to be when you get clobbered by the guy behind you who decided it was time to make a dive bomb move and ends up putting his headlight next to your shifter. If you think that won't happen, you're mistaken. This class is going to be well populated with good drivers with good cars and bad decisions are going to be made. Haiving ABS should reduce the carnage that is about to ensue...

 

Remember: ABS is a safety net, not a hammock!

[Ed M.]

I'm sitting here shaking my head. A whole new class was created to accomidate many of the requests that have been made by guys not running AI due to costs. NASA comes up with (what I consider to be) a great format and here we are talking about the Fn ABS again. WTF??? The parts are out there. You can own them for less that $500 if you look hard enough. Ask Steve Poe. He probably figured out a way to wheel and deal and get his parts for $0. Even if you go to the dealer, you're STILL cheaper than the cost of a set of tires. AND ABS saves cost on tires. Ask Anders how many sets of tires he's gone through just due to flat spotting. ABS makes sense! We'll all have the same setup. Even if not, you guys seem to think that the FR ABS stuff is some sort of wonder drug. Did you guys go brain dead? You realize you can accomplish nearly the exact same effect by going with a more agressive pad compound? Did you stop thinking when you heard ABS? Come on guys...

 

I am all for ABS from a cost savings standpoint. Let me make another point... How happy are you going to be when you get clobbered by the guy behind you who decided it was time to make a dive bomb move and ends up putting his headlight next to your shifter. If you think that won't happen, you're mistaken. This class is going to be well populated with good drivers with good cars and bad decisions are going to be made. Haiving ABS should reduce the carnage that is about to ensue...

 

Remember: ABS is a safety net, not a hammock!

I agree. I can't believe this is actually being talked about.

[CF03GT]

I dont agree.

 

I'm not concerned about FR abs cost (it really is a non-issue now with the availability). And I do think its a "wonder drug" of sorts (it is the best abs race system out (and possibly the best braking, period, for these cars.. abs/or not) and does cover poor driver input VERY well.)

 

I DO KNOW it is a computer controlled drivers assistance tool. A BIG one.

 

Worried about flatspotting tires and getting taken out by a dive bomb move w/out abs?? Really? If our drivers cant be trusted to do 'driving 101' brake skills, well then we might as well implement traction and stability control to avoid wheel spin and sideways sliding in corners to avoid side impacts..

(I'm now getting the feeling there might be more to this "wonder drug" abs then your leading on.. )

 

I'm sticking to the idea that a drivers class does NOT need the "help bandaids/drivers assistance tools" and all input should be directly from the driver.

 

Ps. Love you Dean and Ed

[brucebyerly]

I dont agree.

...

I DO KNOW it is a computer controlled drivers assistance tool. A BIG one.

 

Worried about flatspotting tires and getting taken out by a dive bomb move w/out abs?? Really? If our drivers cant be trusted to do 'driving 101' brake skills, well then we might as well implement traction and stability control to avoid wheel spin and sideways sliding in corners to avoid side impacts..

(I'm now getting the feeling there might be more to this "wonder drug" abs then your leading on.. )

:

 

Chris - it aint that good and definetely not on par with several other drugs. Sometimes it decides not to work. Sometimes I forget to turn it on. It's a driver's aid kinda like power steering and defrosters are these days. However, The tire cost savings alone are worth it for sure plus the carnage reduction in the rain is just practical and makes rain racing fun instead of just stupid.

 

I'm considering the rule change request for traction and stability control as soon as a system becomes readily available though.

 

I want a spec iron car. I do agree on the shocks and what not. Sumbitches ought to be stock or low cost spec stuff.

 

Bb

[CF03GT]

Come on Bruce.. power steering/brakes/defrosters dont calculate and adjust your input to the wheels. Kind of a stretch there bud And heck, you say it dosent work on occasion?? Well hell, thats a certain plus to accident and tire flatspot avoidance..

Which also leads me to believe guys would/do take a lot more chances with those dive bomb moves when they are depending and relying on abs. Where as a little more caution is instilled knowing that it's up to YOU to slow down the car (w/out abs.)

 

ABS just takes so much more of the racing dynamics out of it. Accelerating, cornering and braking are all deciding factors in winning or losing position/race. Why leave one of the major players in the mix up to a computer??

 

Are you guys just scared? Really. We're all bro's here, its ok if thats the case.

But this is a DRIVERS class!!!! AI is there for you guys that want to rely on computer enhanced performance. I like runnin a la natural.

 

This abs thing really might be a deal breaker for me.. I might just head back over to where the real men run (CMC).

 

Edit.. I do realize abs wont go away and it does make so much sense (esp. in an amateur race series) for all involved. I'm just in the minority and realize we are all looking out for our own advantage. And I hope you guys are getting my (extended) use of those emotioncons (sarcastic/joking/ect.) Although, I still think real men run w/out abs

[SNAKBITN]

What Chris is trying to say is he threw all the old $hit away and didn't keep it and now he's going to have to buy all new $hit!

 

Robert

[Ed M.]

But if everyone has it, then it gets back to how good the driver can use it. Which translates back to driver skill... Correct?

 

There is more to ABS then just stabbing to pedal...

 

Ed

[stevepoe]

Ohhh yawn ...second verse same as the first.....

[robbodleimages]

come on about the abs. is that how you drive your car? get to the braking zone and mash the pedal as hard as you can?

 

i doubt that. if you engage the abs system, you are going slower than if you correctly threshold braked the corner. some might could say that same thing about smoking the living daylights out of an RA1. you can just about lock them up to your hearts content and they remain round.

[stevepoe]

Jesus bodle is back from sebring ....Stop the madness Please........ Mods Please lock this ...

[robbodleimages]

[UBR]

I know. Lets come up with some modifier. If you run ABS, it's a higher HP:Wt and/or you run on skinnier tires. Different ABS modules will get different modifiers. Except for the ones you can't tell apart. And then... Oh wait! We tried that. Nevermind.

 

j

[Micks 41]

[CF03GT]

Come on guys, this is a brand new class trying to establish itself. Dead horse (in a different arena) or not.. nows the time to put the concerns on the table.

 

Funny Robert

 

Ed, we could all use remote control too.. we'd all have the same thing.. . Cinch up those big boy panties and drive w/in your own limits

 

And Ed and Bodle, where did you guys get the idea I thought it was just a stab at the pedal and magic happens?? Lol.

 

I just like it raw (the driving that is).

[nape]

Why learn to drive when the ABS will keep you on the pavement if you use any brains?

 

I got a taste of running a 4200lb pig with 600+ RWHP on street tires last year and anyone who says it isn't an advantage ought to be a big bank CEO at bailout time.

 

It's a losing battle, Chris. Ford has their own series and it's even bought and paid for this time. I'd say you've got a snowflake's chance in winning this one.