robpkz Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 put the stock side skirts back on last year, sorry bro car is legit don't be but hurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robpkz Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 I'm not going to be able to make next weekends event, but will look into some other central region events to run, look forward to running with you guys the car has been inspected, looked over, talked about with all the Honda guys that know the car, all legal just driving the balls off of it or should I be taking points for that to, sorry I built a sick TTF car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 put the stock side skirts back on last year, sorry bro car is legit don't be but hurt troll harder I've got my popcorn ready Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWeber Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 I'm not going to be able to make next weekends event, but will look into some other central region events to run, look forward to running with you guys We run mostly Great Lakes and Midwest Region events and only a couple of Central Region events. This year we plan to run Gateway and Heartland Park Topeka over Memorial weekend. We are also planning for MidO in April but not so sure about July or August yet. Any interest in going further north to Autobahn, Putnam or Gingerman this year? Lots of TTF records you are welcome to go after here if you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robpkz Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 I will look into that and I except your offer, and likewise there some TTF records to be broken hear on the east coast for you guys since Ken can only sit back make excuses and eat some popcorn, lol thanks I had a blast hit me up if you guys come out this way, be good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWeber Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 I will look into that and I except your offer, and likewise there some TTF records to be broken hear on the east coast .... ^ Are you going to run PTF any time soon? We plan to run mostly PTF now that we have the g20 caged with both of us having comp licenses now to be perfectly honest. All our TTF records are older standing records at this point that anyone is welcome to change at any time. A Nissan NX2000 still has the TTF record for the MidO club course though at this point with a 1:51:247 (we never did get a chance to run the club course in TTF because every event we did there so far was with the pro course). TTF now in Great Lakes and Midwest regions really has only 1 person for 2013 from what I can tell with his SVT Focus (he doesn't have any standing records). PTF has Missy for 2013 with her Neon but she ran PTF with no one running against her in 2012 in Great Lakes region all season so she set 2 records last year in PTF. Lots of 'placeholder' aka 'no records' in PTF in Great Lakes and Midwest regions right now.. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cucamelsmd15 Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 put the stock side skirts back on last year, sorry bro car is legit don't be but hurt First, Im not your bro. Second you mean you took the side skirts off here, at VIR, when you reset the lap record in a car that wasnt legal for TTF in Octoberfast, right? Thats fine, you were cheating when you broke the record, but whats done is done. You took the side skirts off. Except you still arent taking a +1 for the rear spats and bumper cover. Replace or modifyBTM rear diffuser, rear bumper cover, or rear “fascia” (note: additional points must be assessed for any vertical panels incorporated into a rear diffuser that are greater than five inches in height --- G.8 ) below) +1 As seen here: And its really open for debate if you should be taking the +2 for the rear spats as well from G.8. I built a sick TTF car Thats a shame, I hope it gets well soon. But please, go on telling us about this 100% legal car you have. Personally, if I showed up at a Mid-A or SE event running TTF, the only way Id believe the car was legal was when it was in impound. Here Ken, allow me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robpkz Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 first 2 pics are from July with the optional side skirts that would take 2 points, the last pic is from last month with stock btm side skirts, so take a good look again sorry bro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryancohnracing Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Just to be clear, there is no time limit on rule infractions in Time Trials. Regions may set one per their Supplemental Regulations (as we did in MW/GL back in 2010). So technically per the CCR and TT Rules what's done isn't done. Now back to your regularly schedule trash talking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 since Ken can only sit back make excuses and eat some popcorn excuse me for having a life outside of racing, Junior. if anyone needs assistance in protesting this guy, he just made it personal with me, so I'll be happy to help in anyway I can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neon982004 Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 You are incorrect on the TTF record. They count Nationals now as well so it was set a couple years ago at Nationals in the 40 something range. I will look into that and I except your offer, and likewise there some TTF records to be broken hear on the east coast .... ^ Are you going to run PTF any time soon? We plan to run mostly PTF now that we have the g20 caged with both of us having comp licenses now to be perfectly honest. All our TTF records are older standing records at this point that anyone is welcome to change at any time. A Nissan NX2000 still has the TTF record for the MidO club course though at this point with a 1:51:247 (we never did get a chance to run the club course in TTF because every event we did there so far was with the pro course). TTF now in Great Lakes and Midwest regions really has only 1 person for 2013 from what I can tell with his SVT Focus (he doesn't have any standing records). PTF has Missy for 2013 with her Neon but she ran PTF with no one running against her in 2012 in Great Lakes region all season so she set 2 records last year in PTF. Lots of 'placeholder' aka 'no records' in PTF in Great Lakes and Midwest regions right now.. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neon982004 Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Chris- I will shortly be going back to my rule of avoiding the forums for this reason. You should check your facts as I know there will be a second Focus and someone I greatly respect in TTF this upcoming year. While he may or may not have the greatest equipment, he is out there doing it, and I think that is what should be encouraged instead of shoving people away from the classes. Also, yep, I surely hold some records for being the only one driving the class. And maybe I did or did not beat records to get them (and some I did) but again, instead of shoving in people's faces that their accomplishments are only by default etc why dont you congratulate people for getting out there and doing it. People who spend their time, and energy building and repairing and living the sport. We all know the passion we all have, and we all have our own opinions on the quality of one another's cars, preparedness, driving ability, but the fact is, there are a lot of us that do or dont have the best equipment, are or frankly arent talented as others, but we are out there giving it our all, having fun, sharing tears and wins and everything in between. So while I may hold "placeholder" records, I am incredibly proud of what I have accomplished, with what I can afford and my own abilities and will continue to live to that standard, not one of negativity and pushing the people who try the hardest away. I will look into that and I except your offer, and likewise there some TTF records to be broken hear on the east coast .... ^ Are you going to run PTF any time soon? We plan to run mostly PTF now that we have the g20 caged with both of us having comp licenses now to be perfectly honest. All our TTF records are older standing records at this point that anyone is welcome to change at any time. A Nissan NX2000 still has the TTF record for the MidO club course though at this point with a 1:51:247 (we never did get a chance to run the club course in TTF because every event we did there so far was with the pro course). TTF now in Great Lakes and Midwest regions really has only 1 person for 2013 from what I can tell with his SVT Focus (he doesn't have any standing records). PTF has Missy for 2013 with her Neon but she ran PTF with no one running against her in 2012 in Great Lakes region all season so she set 2 records last year in PTF. Lots of 'placeholder' aka 'no records' in PTF in Great Lakes and Midwest regions right now.. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smike Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 TTF now in Great Lakes and Midwest regions really has only 1 person for 2013 from what I can tell with his SVT Focus (he doesn't have any standing records). PTF has Missy for 2013 with her Neon but she ran PTF with no one running against her in 2012 in Great Lakes region all season so she set 2 records last year in PTF. Lots of 'placeholder' aka 'no records' in PTF in Great Lakes and Midwest regions right now.. lol Wow. This is a pretty arrogant post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 I have no problems welcoming newcomers, but when the new comer basically walks around with two middle fingers in the air.... that's different. That kind of person can GTFO quite honestly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smike Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 I have no problems welcoming newcomers, but when the new comer basically walks around with two middle fingers in the air.... that's different. That kind of person can GTFO quite honestly. Correct. This isn't Formula Drift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWeber Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 My apologies for being somewhat incomplete on my MIDO TTF Club course comment. I see now that the current TTF Club Course record is indeed held by someone who had an NX2000 Nissan from the 2007 NASA Nationals event. I didn't realize until now that they ran the club course for 2007 Nationals. ..learn something new every day! Walter Carlos got the PTF record last year at Nationals for the Pro Course so someone needs to get that record updated on the Great Lakes records it would seem. I'll be cheering for Walter if he goes to Nationals this year! If he didn't spin out at Nationals, given his lap times, it could have been a very different race for 1st and 2nd place finishes! Walter did a great job stepping up his pace at MidO from 2011 when he was running 1:49s vs the 1:47s he ran at Nats in 2012! I'm glad to hear there will be more people in TTF this year to help keep the sport alive for the F class. I figured there was only Lowell in TTF for 2013 so good for him having someone to run against this year. So if robpkz makes it up for the August MidO event like he plans, sounds like he can have some fun competition to run against! Now I'd love to see 3 or 4 more people for PTF at Midwest and Greatlakes events but I have my doubts that anyone else will step up for 2013. It is a pretty big jump moving from Time Trials to W2W and good for Missy taking that step! I wish more people would 'step up'. I'm very glad to see more females at the driver's meeting too actually! For the moment I am not sure what I will run this year. I have no finances for buying the new required toyo RR tire for spec miata with a basement full of used RA1s so no SM for me this year it seems after the 1st 2 events that are still allowing RA1s. (and I already know I'll be at a pretty big disadvantage on the slower RA1 but so-be-it, I will still have fun! .... And no worries because I've already accepted the fact that I'm simply not as fast as my hubby in the G20 but I can hold my own and will be having fun in the Miata, Sentra or G20 this year as budget permits I really like having other people to compete against in my class including to learn from them (why I joined SM in the 1st place) so I'm looking forward to the possibility of running MidO after not running it since 2007 with Audi Club on the club course (yes it has been a long damn time since I've run MidO at all!) Missy will have a nice home track advantage against me if I get a chance to run there this year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 I'll just leave this here: 23.0 Participant Conduct23.1 Participant Conduct - Expectations It is expected that every participant [Ref: (1.4.4)] and driver (entrant) at a NASA sanctioned event will conduct themselves according to the highest standards of behavior and sportsmanship, particularly in their relationship with other drivers and Officials, and in a manner that shall not be detrimental to the reputation of NASA, its series, or other drivers. This rule also pertains to actions away from the track, such as posting comments on forums that are in violations of this rule. 23.1.1 Good Sportsmanship NASA considers good sportsmanship to be the very essence of the sport, and the basic foundation of any competition. Competitors are expected to hold the qualities of fairness, honesty, courtesy, and justice to be more important than the outcome of the race. Real sportsmen/women may have an intense desire to win, but not at all costs. A person that has won by cheating, or by any means less than honorable, has simply found a way to acquire a trophy, but not a victory. 23.1.2 Unsportsmanlike Conduct Any unsportsmanlike conduct, on any scale, is not welcome at NASA events. Acts of unsportsmanlike conduct have many forms such as arguing, yelling, intimidation, aggressive physical contact, and losing without grace. Other forms are willfully using non-performance technicalities to hurt another competitor’s point standings to the benefit of one’s own, “sandbagging,” and failing to report a mistake in scoring that benefits themselves. No form of unsportsmanlike conduct will be tolerated at any NASA event. Competitors that show poor sportsmanship due to a mistake in judgment will be educated, and punished if necessary. However, competitors that commit repeated acts of unsportsmanlike conduct cannot be educated; therefore expulsion is most likely the only remedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWeber Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Chris- Also, yep, I surely hold some records for being the only one driving the class. And maybe I did or did not beat records to get them (and some I did) but again, instead of shoving in people's faces that their accomplishments are only by default etc why dont you congratulate people for getting out there and doing it. Please accept my sincere huge CONGRATS on that accomplishment for yourself and women in the sport because I was initially only addressing your current standing PTF MidO Club Course, Grattan and TTF Beaverun ones that were set by you with no former records in place or people running in the same class before you did. You did indeed have some other records against other times that have since been reset I totally forgot about (sorry about that). I do look forward to the possible opportunity of being able to run against you this year in PTF and I'll be sure to try to be the 1st to shake your hand and congratulate you if you win against me at an event. ...and I'm happy to learn from you (or anyone else) if you are faster with me behind you at a race! After running Spec Miata for years and being repeatedly humbled by better drivers, I've learned long ago that I'm not a 'front runner' with pro potential and I'm totally okay with that fact. EDIT --> The sad fact is there is simply not as many people in TTF/PTF combined vs. Spec Miata (as an example) so the TTF/PTF classes run much smaller thoughout the country and you tend to often see the same people's names for event participants and things like 'track records' are easier to accomplish than Spec Miata track records. Rules often change as well and new cars and drivers come into the class all the time. I'm 99.99% sure we wouldn't even have any current track records at all if there was as many people in TTF/PTF as there is in Spec Miata for example. I'm also pretty confident that if the top spec miata driver from 2012, 2011 or 2010 drove our g20 and was given some time to get used to the car, that top driver would break and reset all our track records. <-- just how it is.. ...and why we often see the 1st place spec miata drivers at National events go pro! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cucamelsmd15 Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 first 2 pics are from July with the optional side skirts that would take 2 points, the last pic is from last month with stock btm side skirts, so take a good look againsorry bro Wrong and wrong. Both those pictures are from October, hence the filenames with 10 and 12 in them. Im sure the title just says Octoberfast for the fun of it, right? http://www.catesracing.com/flp/nasa/2012events/2012_10_vir/tt_0/IMG_7234.JPG.html In addition, I wasnt talking about side skirts, I was talking about the rear spats and bumper cover that arent OEM and worth +2 in the picture from last month. So far, your "100% legal" car is actually a TTE +1 or TTE +3 car, depending on how you want to look at it when you set all these records. Any way you slice it, it WAS NOT TTF legal when you set the records, yet you continue to lie about it. I would bet a shiny nickel that if your car ever showed up in impound and was actually really looked into, it would be deemed non-compliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robpkz Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 to be clear with all i just started TT in july 2012 and im new to this, i have gone threw alot with classing the car, when i first started in july the car was not legal cause of not knowing that the front end and side skirts would be pointed for since i thought oem parts were considered stock, so then after emails with TT directors i changed tire size to get 5 points back which would account for the front end 3 and side skirts 2, at the time i was running a stock cat and air box, then took the side skirts off and used the points for the cat and air box, also those oem bumper pieces are not on the car, i bought the car that way and you know those exterior pieces are for look no aero advantage, some act like im trying to cheat cause im not a cheater, i want to run fair and have been, i have nothing to hide and have shared all so instead of support of a newb its like someone is always trying to bring me down instead of helping and pushing to be better, like i do for all my students this thread was started to get people to want to run TTF, sorry for any hard feelings, Ken i was busting your balls cause it be good to see you back out hear on the east coast running so im am sorry that was uncalled for, i appreciate all the help and info will be looking into ptf thanks, NASA is a great organization i am happy for being part of it, there are alot of good people with the group and i have had nothing but a blast with you guys and i keep trying to bring new people in always, thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robpkz Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 did not notice the octoberfast, the rear bumper is oem, the spats i was allowed at october but they are now off the car so i dont have to hear any more of this that your car is not legal, its a TTF car and im sorry for that, please be clear of your facts and i appreciate your support Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWeber Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 (edited) ^ The TT rules are very clear. I know it isn't the most fun reading material but I highly recommend you set aside a good hour or 2 of time to sit down and read through the rules, take notes and then ask questions of your regional TT director or Greg G for what you might not understand or isn't clear enough to you. My husband became extremely well versed in the PT/TT rules for car classing over the years because we wanted to be absolutely sure we are never breaking any rules and were always running legally! ..and as already stated here, Nationals level is going to be much more 'strict' about the classification rules! ...so much so that you will have to hand in a different sheet if you change tires between runs/go to rain tires, etc. To give you an example. Our Infiniti is a g20t from the factory meaning it came with LSD but the 't' was an option so that means LSD was a factory option and not standard (so you have to take points)...and only the 't' came with a trunk spoiler which we immediately got rid of because we didn't want to take points for it. Now if the car came stock with a trunk spoiler like the Sentra SE-R we have, IIRC, we'd have to take points for removing it. ...just how the rules work! ..so read carefully!!! We left the factory sway bars alone and connected. There was a guy kicked out of is class at Nationals in 2011 for disconnecting his sway bar... he claimed he was allowed to run locally like that all season but guess what, just having it there and not connected means you have to take points for disconnecting it and his 'local' event records were all taken away after the 'discovery' at Nationals impound! Bottom line is that it is the owner and 'driver's' responsibility to know, understand and follow the rules so just because you claim that you 'didn't know' does not give you the excuse to run in ignorance either. Edited March 15, 2013 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robpkz Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 I have been struggling with that last year with tt directors, like I said I am new and those things have been taking care of for this year so I have no problems, there is a thing called regional allowance but I'm not using that anymore since my plan is to run nationals, I do thank you for your help and look forward to meeting you guys ^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cucamelsmd15 Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 did not notice the octoberfast, the rear bumper is oem, the spats i was allowed at october but they are now off the car so i dont have to hear any more of this that your car is not legal, its a TTF car and im sorry for that, please be clear of your facts and i appreciate your support But yet they're still shown in the pictures from February. My facts are still pretty clear: You broke a track record in a car that wasnt legal for that class. No matter how much you try and explain your way around, you cant get away from that fact. you know those exterior pieces are for look no aero advantage So that somehow magically exempts you for taking points from it? i want to run fair and have been You mean, while youve been breaking records in a car that isnt legal for the class? You know, this isnt my first time at this rodeo. In one of the other competitive sports I participate in, we have a "newbie rule". The first time you show up with a misclassed or not-quite-legal gun, we will give you a pass, because lets be honest, youre not beating any of us. Its a one time deal, and we will point out the error of your ways, and expect you to RTFM. Youve been doing this since July of 2012, which is FAR longer than should be necessary to navigate the rules. To me, thats a pretty blatant violation of the unsportsmanlike conduct code Ken posted above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 (edited) Don't make me bring out the Cruze Eco... Edited March 17, 2013 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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