Nationals updat

[koserv]

I'm going for sure in 2011.

 

That's what I'm talking about! Besides, you cheating bastards in Texas might have a bit more trouble than you think getting that hardware back (let the games begin!!!)

 

As far as the DQ's, we've been shooting the shit post race/post beer/post Marguretta (what the F is in those things??). I was stunned that most of the guys hadn't spent some time with the rule book before this event. You'd think that would be SOP...... When the guys get back, I'll let them chime in on thier point of view, but it seems nobody thought there was any funny biz going on. In the case here, the DQ's were all from black and white rules....no "interpretation". So what's BS about that? It's nice when you can get tech to do your job pre-race and give you a heads up before the big show on any item that may bust the rules, but that's not their job.

 

I suspect this is just the start of the shit storm, but it shouldn't be. The rules are there. Argue your problems/concerns in the winter when they open the book for discussion, and live with the decisions. This is a great series...easy on the wallet, small ruleset, great people....how can holding to the rules at a National event be BS? Isn't it actually a good thing?

 

That said, this was still a great event and there was some awsome racing.

 

The parties weren't bad either.....

[Pat Stone1548534713]

Who is KIFIfan? Could you put your name with your posts so we know who you are. Thanks. Boy you sure have it in for Glenn hunh. You boys should play nice. Glenn is correct in saying that all cars should be in compliance with all rules at all times. Alan is a good tech, it's hard to get anything by him because he builds race cars. If you don't pass you don't win. Basic racing 101 really. Just my two cents. And i think all championship podium cars should be dynoed after the Championship race everytime. That is the main judging point on the cars. I think Glenn is a good example of what a Champion should strive for, a car that passes tech, no excuses. Came to race. Mistakes do happen, racing is hard and things happen. I've never seen him intentionally take someone out. You should chill.

 

Pat Stone

cmc#50

Nor Cal

Edited September 19, 2010 by Guest

[Pat Stone1548534713]

Oh yeah sorry, Congrats to all the winners and thanks for representing CMC with class and style. Sounds like awesome clean racing. Have a safe trip home.

 

PS

[Glenn]

Who is KIFIfan? Could you put your name with your posts so we know who you are. Thanks.

Pat Stone

cmc#50

Nor Cal

 

Its Matt King. We have been thru this a few times. He thinks we dont know. Everyone does.

And no, he doesnt like me.

[Glenn]

How drunk did JWL get?

[koserv]

How drunk did JWL get?

 

He was there? Someone spiked the Marguretta machine with god knows what....I'm still trying to remember where the hell I am....

[FBody383]

Great job guys, sounds like CMC and The Duece were well represented again. Write into the rules for '11 everybody should have to make Hallett or Nationals.

 

...I'm going for sure in 2011.

Same here... time off on the calendar, dollars going into the piggy bank.

 

So when do we know if it's two classes or one for '11?

[cmc35]

Great job guys, sounds like CMC and The Duece were well represented again. Write into the rules for '11 everybody should have to make Hallett or Nationals.

 

...I'm going for sure in 2011.

Same here... time off on the calendar, dollars going into the piggy bank.

 

So when do we know if it's two classes or one for '11?

 

Don't EVEN start that sh*t: it's two classes in '11.

[Al F.]

Well, I certainly havent see the section of the rules titled "chicken shit stuff that doesnt affect performance".

 

When Todd and I sat down to prepare our tech schedule we certainly focused post race tech to be things that impact performance of the car. As a matter of fact, we ran the same tech schedule in multiple sessions, and chose cars specifically so that as many cars as possible would be checked for the same things. We also made a checklist of things we wanted to see that dont impact performance, and ran through those during "series tech", which all drivers were required to go through at some point before the big show.

 

With regards to chassis stiffening, I believe this does impact performance and as well as build cost which is why we're not allowed to do things like put cages through the firewall, seam weld frames, etc. This specific item was checked throughout the weekend and two other cars had the same penalty (DQ that session) for infractions. Those infractions were public, everyone knew well in advance of the big show this was an item that was being looked at.

 

There are of course things in our rules that are more aesthetics than anything else. I think we did a pretty good job of running through those with drivers. As a matter of fact several fix it tickets were handed out for things like missing cowl covers, holes in the dashboard, and in Eric The Champ Sjoblom's case, lexan quarter windows. Now, before anyone flips out...his quarter windows are ridiculous; they're hideously thick and have these metal air scoops on them...they're easily heavier than the glass and finding glass for this weekend would've been silly, so a fix it ticket made sense.

[cozog1548534733]

What's a "fix it ticket"? Do you have to fix the item before the next race, next weekend event or next season?

 

Thanks.

[Glenn]

What's a "fix it ticket"? Do you have to fix the item before the next race, next weekend event or next season?

 

Thanks.

 

It can vary. A time line is usually set-up between the Official and the driver. It should get noted in the logbook as well. And the regional annual Tech sticker should be removed. This will require the person to present the book to a Regional Official who should read previously made comments and esure they are delt w/.

 

In this case, I would have required the item to have been replaced by the persons next event. However, his Regional Directors obviously have no issue w/ this on his car or it wouldnt have shown up to Nat's like this. I assume the same "fix it ticket" will in no way be granted in the future to this person. A DQ will result, even if at Nats.

[Glenn]

Great job guys, sounds like CMC and The Duece were well represented again. Write into the rules for '11 everybody should have to make Hallett or Nationals.

 

...I'm going for sure in 2011.

Same here... time off on the calendar, dollars going into the piggy bank.

 

So when do we know if it's two classes or one for '11?

 

There will be CMC(1) at the 2011 Nat's as long as there is the required car count to field a class.

The National Directors and Regional Directors have been pretty clear about not getting rid of the class until it dies on its own. Once gone regionaly, its gone.

[RichV]

Congrats to the podium finishers. Looking forward to racing with you guys in '11 at Ohio.

[FBody383]

So when do we know if it's two classes or one for '11?

 

Don't EVEN start that sh*t: it's two classes in '11.

 

Deep breath, good buddy... not trying to stir the pot, just asking.

 

I can be equally uncompetitive in either but can run CMC to give the third gen F bodies and Fox cars some competition as long as there are some. Not real keen on running CMC all year and then not having a class at '11 Nats.

[James Griffith]

GEE GLEN, YOUR FACTS (OR WHINING) ABOUT THE 'O6' CMC NATIONALSIS IS ALL WRONG. LISTEN UP, THIS IS THE REAL HISTORY LESSON;THE CAR IN QUESTION (#92) WAS DYNOED AND TECHED FOR 2 HOURS AFTER THE RACE. WE EVEN HAVE VIDIO AND A DYNO SHEET TO BACK UP OUR FACTS (TO FOLLOW). WHAT DO YOU HAVE? BETTER SPEND MORE TIME ON YOUR RACE DRIVING THAN WHINING. JIM GRIFFITH- "07" CMC2 NATIONAL CHAMP.

 

 

RE: And for a bit of a history lesson......

The very first Nats, the car that won the CMC Champ race from like 23rd place was not teched post race like you think should it happen. In fact he was not teched once all weekend cause he never finished a qual of qual race. Post race everyone knew he was not legal, but there was no plan set to tech any cars post race. Even the dyno had packed up and left by that time. 6 months later the car was caught 30+ hp over. We all knew that it was BS he was the Champ, but there was not a thing that could be done. In my mind, I finished 2nd that year and Jeff B finished 1st.

[Glenn]

First I've heard of that happening.

Good luck to ya.

[James Griffith]

When was the car caught with 30hp over? I still have the dyno from the race? You stood there and watched me dyno after I set the fastest lap of the week at a 1:42. The entire class had to dyno. Did you? 6months later the #92 National Champion car was purchased by my Dad(2007 CMC2 National Champion) had bought put a new Cobra motor in it and won the Nationals again. It's unfortunate that the CMC is being represented by loose cannon firing off at his competitors instead of being a respectful delegate. That in no way helps the CMC kinship we all used to have. As you will see in the video HP had nothing to do with my pass on you. You simply drove off the track obviously looking in the mirror instead of the windshield.

 

Video is downloading on Youtube right now. Link and new post soon to fallow.

 

Congratulations to the 2010 Champions!

 

 

James Griffith III

2006 National Champion

50+ wins

Most wins in CMC history

Most technical inspections car in CMC history

[nasa-rm]

lexan quarter windows. Now, before anyone flips out...his quarter windows are ridiculous; they're hideously thick and have these metal air scoops on them...they're easily heavier than the glass and finding glass for this weekend would've been silly, so a fix it ticket made sense.

 

I'd give anything to have gotten a fix it ticket. I didn't know this was an option.....

 

Where my 7th and 8th cage points attach, the firewall is ridiculously thin and does not offer a performance advantage (IMHO). The bars are there strictly to protect my feet and legs as I don't feel the thin floppy sheet metal offerers enough protection from intrusion of wheels/suspension/etc. Not sure about everyone else, but roll cages are for protection of the driver yes?

 

If I had wanted chassis stiffening, I would have located the bars along a structural part of the chassis, which by the way would have met the 18" minimum distance. I hosed myself by choosing safe over better rigidity.

 

Too late to get that fix it ticket?

 

 

My new mantra.

 

2011

2011

2011

2011

[K Shaw]

Lexan windows on the winning car and a DQ for a strut tower bar mounting infraction.

 

I dont get it.

 

Too much power on the dyno I get.

 

Is this some ones opinion that the strut tower bar is giving a advantage or do they have facts to back it up like a dyno sheet.

 

Sounds like lexan windows should have been a DQ or strut tower brace should have been a fix it ticket.

 

Anyway great racing guys. Congrats to everyone.

[mitchntx1548534714]

Where my 7th and 8th cage points attach, the firewall is ridiculously thin and does not offer a performance advantage (IMHO). The bars are there strictly to protect my feet and legs as I don't feel the thin floppy sheet metal offerers enough protection from intrusion of wheels/suspension/etc. Not sure about everyone else, but roll cages are for protection of the driver yes?

 

If I had wanted chassis stiffening, I would have located the bars along a structural part of the chassis, which by the way would have met the 18" minimum distance. I hosed myself by choosing safe over better rigidity.

 

Dave, I would like to see a couple pics of the infraction and what was deemed illegal.

 

I want to make sure I'm not going down the same path as you.

 

Again, congrats to everyone who made the show and put on a great show. With a couple exceptions, CMC is the series with the most class.

[MHISSTC]

With a couple exceptions, CMC is the series with the most class.

 

Thanks for bringing that up. While there were some disappointed folks in CMC, I never saw the kind of appalling behavior I witnessed from some of the Honda Challenge drivers and crew. Blatent cheating aside, if you guys really wanted to see a shit-storm, you should have witnessed tech following the Honda Challenge.

 

I never want to go through the kind of tech those cars are subject to. It would take me a week to tear things apart to that degree and another month or two to put it all back together.

 

The Honda Challenge folks had all their entries paid for by Honda and had multiple thousands of dollars on the line for the podium finishes, so there was more on the line than just losing out on a picture and a trophy. However, I think even the biggest A-hole in CMC would smell like a flower compared to some of the drivers and crew members with bad attitudes and downright confrontational behavior displayed towards the NASA officials. It was embarrassing, disgraceful, and should been subject to penalty all by itself.

[Al F.]

Those quarter windows were seen late Wednesday. The only way a quarter window change adds to performance is if it is lighter than the glas it replaces. Erics car is well over min, and those quarter windows are awful heavy with their metal scoops and their thickness. I therefore decided it made no sense to scramble looking for glass. Yes it's the nats, but if there is zero performance impact we have to be ralistic. After all this is NASA and not fia.

Edited September 20, 2010 by Guest

[Al F.]

Unfortunately the same cannot be said for chassis stiffening. Cmc goes out of it's way to limit chassis stiffening because eliminating flex yields big returns. Otherwise folks wouldn't go to the extremes they go to when allowed. That said, I'm open to suggestions during the rules silly season.

[KiMifan]

Regardless of anyone's thoughts on the chassis stiffening rule itself, Balingit obviously was in violation of a written rule. However, the car that was awarded the win was also in black and white violation of a rule. So that leaves it up to the race director's discretion as to what penalty to apply. IMO, I would not have been looking for chassis violations at that stage of the event. If it had been caught early in the week, he could have easily fixed it like others did. If he "got away" with it in the race, it wouldn't be the first time and it won't be the last. Until every car is teched for every rule in the book after every session, that's just going to happen from time to time. It doesn't make it right, but it does make it reality.

 

As far as the chassis stiffening rule itself, it's unfortunate for Dave that he didn't have the chance to simply unbolt the strut tower brace and trash it, since it's well established that the bolt-on strut tower braces don't provide any meaningful improvement in rigidity. I'm pretty sure the intent of the rule was to prevent butting two tubes against opposing plates on the firewall to circumvent the prohibition on running the forward cage brace to the strut tower through the firewall.

 

I also don't think anyone would be crying foul this morning if Balingit had been given a "fix it" ticket.

[BADVENM]

First and most importantly I would like to thank everyone involved in putting on a great event. I would also like to thank our fellow CMC drivers, its great putting a face to a name. Our goal was to improve our lap times from last year as well as placement amongst our competitors, we did that and had a whole lot of fun doing it. Our team of 2 did pretty well, drum rear brakes and all

 

As far as the rules and violations, they were broken. Its up to the driver to ensure his/her car is within the rules. Class designations and/or number sizes were measured last year in tech. There is no option on sizes, its written in black and white (7.2.3). If the required size per the CCR is now an option, change the wording to "should be" or something like that or simply take it out. It will make the document that much shorter.

 

If lexan/plexiglass windows are gonna be allowed, change the CCR. Last I read they are not allowed. You're opening a can of worms with allowing it. Drivers will now be weighing their windows to the thousanth of a pound to ensure they are above the stock glass window weight. Tech will have to now weigh these windows to ensure they weigh more then stock glass. Its black and white in the rules, why is it now allowed at a National championship event?

 

If cowel covers arent required, change the rules. This is the National championships, none of these rules should be a shock.

 

What about fuel stored in ice or something of the sort then put in the car?Is this allowed? Per the CCR (7.22.3) fuel coolers are prohibited. Can you transfer chilled fuel from another location into the tank?

 

Did anyone else see cars filling their fuel tanks in the garage...GP garages included?

 

Basically, we ensured that we followed the CCR to the letter with every rule that was listed in black and white. I'm dissapointed to find out that at a National event a few of these rules were now optional or changed and made legal, whether a performance enhancement or not, they are the rules. Its really not that hard to conform to them.